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[Other Sport] US Grand Prix
- Thread starter Icy Gull
- Start date
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
I've watched that pass a few times now.
MV saw a gap up the inside of KR - but KR didn't expect it and turned in
MV saw a gap up the inside of KR - but KR didn't expect it and turned in
to squeeze MV - if MV had held his line and not also turned harder right, there would have been a collision.
In turning right to avoid a collision, MV had to leave the track.
Well, that's how I saw it .... awesome drive from MV - he won't forget this and I bet, later in his career when he is a total megastar, FIA will be reminded of their actions at Austin in 2017.
Would not be possible in Monaco as there are no run-offs - perhaps the way to stop this is to change all the kerbs to "stingers" so if a car runs over a kerb you get a puncture and have to pit - that'll learn 'em!
In turning right to avoid a collision, MV had to leave the track.
Well, that's how I saw it .... awesome drive from MV - he won't forget this and I bet, later in his career when he is a total megastar, FIA will be reminded of their actions at Austin in 2017.
Would not be possible in Monaco as there are no run-offs - perhaps the way to stop this is to change all the kerbs to "stingers" so if a car runs over a kerb you get a puncture and have to pit - that'll learn 'em!
Weststander
Well-known member
@ 100mph, that will teach them an eternal lesson
Hmm. He could also have braked to avoid a collision.
Initially, I was as outraged as everyone else about the penalty, but on reflection I think it was correct. He had all 4 wheels off the track on an inside corner - that is surely "gaining an advantage"? Kimi did leave a gap, but rectified his line before MV got level, thus shutting the door. By not braking and instead taking his car off the road, MV got the advantage.
Was it inconsistently stewarded? Yep. But I don't remember anyone else in the race taking all 4 wheels off the track on an inside corner (thus shortening rather than lengthening the distance travelled) to effect an overtake.
Isn't it similar to a middle/long distance athletics race? Mo is rounding the last corner in second place and, rather than trying to go round the outside of the guy in first, steps off the track into the middle of the oval, cuts the corner a bit, and wins. Clearly unacceptable. Same here, no?
BensGrandad
New member
At the end of the day did it matter other than to the driver who came 3rd or 4th did it affect constructors places at all. I accept that it could have been more important so should be correct.
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
No, if he'd tried to brake whilst demanding the tyres grip under hard cornering, the front wheels would have locked, causing loss of grip, and a collision would have occurred.
When I did my advanced driver skid-pan training I remember the instructor saying that when tyres are on the limit of grip, they may turn OR brake, but if you try to do both, you'll get neither.
Ooo get you.
I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. Max was accelerating as he exited the corner, he could have eased off if he wanted. Not that I think he should have.
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
The avoidance took place just prior to the apex of the corner which is before you accelerate out of the corner - the load under braking is mostly on the front and more so on the outside wheel.
Skid-pan training wasn't meant to be an "ooh look at at me" - sorry if it came over that way.
It was a fantastic and educational experience. The car was especially modified so that both ABS and traction control could be switched on or off [to see the difference] - best money I've spent on fun and education - I'd thoroughly recommend anyone to book up for this, you'll be amazed at what you can learn [and then experience for yourself].
If he wanted to slow down, he could have.
No it's ok, I was just being cheeky. I don't agree with the exact quote you gave: "when tyres are on the limit of grip, they may turn OR brake, but if you try to do both, you'll get neither. "
If your tyres are really on the limit of grip then you are already turning or breaking, and in truth, you can't do more of either. Racing drivers are initially taught to finish their breaking in a straight line, and then turn, keeping a constant speed through the turn, and accelerating after the turn - but those initial teachings are just that, initial. Drivers can utilise trail breaking for a couple of reasons, so they're turning and breaking (to some extent) at the same time. Also when defending or overtaking, drivers may give up the fastest route through a corner in order to protect/gain track position.
Back to the point, I'm not convinced Max couldn't have avoided a collision without cutting the corner, but that alone doesn't make him guilty.
What are the rules for when the front driver is allowed to close the door and take the racing line? Are they allowed to do that as long as their marginally ahead, or do they need at least half a car's length or what?
Are you suggesting they have tyre walls or something similar then. The wide run-offs are for safety so they aren't going to compromise that when it's easier to penalize drivers who gain an advantage!
Worried Man Blues
Well-known member
Go back to straw bales....no there should be something that allows you to slow down and re join so it doesn't let you have an advantage. Some run off strips already have added obstructions which do this. or you have to go back to where you came off. They really shouldn't have set up a system where they can alter the result after the race has finished, this was always going to happen