[Misc] Universal Credit

[darkwolf666]

You’re a mug for starting such a thread!

And you’re a nasty individual... with no empathy for those in need!

 

[KZNSeagull]

Benefits have always been difficult to apply for, but that is not the point.

We recently applied for PIP for our autistic son. He had to have a face to face interview which, thankfully, my wife was also allowed to attend. It was conducted by an outside agency. When the report came back from them, the write up from the interview was a very biased interpretation of what was said eg my son said that he can make toast, therefore they took that as meaning that he can cook a meal for himself (he can't). He also said that he might be able to catch a bus to college - what he didn't say and they did not ask was whether he could do that on his own (he cannot - in fact he up to that point he never went out on his own, ever). Anyway, as a result he was not awarded anything.

We appealed and had to get all sorts of reports from as many agencies as possible to back up what we were saying. The review is carried out by the DWP and not the outside agency. After the appeal, he was awarded full PIP! So they went from awarding nothing to awarding the full amount. Bonkers really, and he has to reapply in 3 years time which will be fun.

So I am afraid the moral of the story is to persevere. But I agree with others, anyone with mental health issues doing this on their own would get nowhere.

 

[Simster]

Sigh ..perhaps let’s not turn the thread into bashing one side ...let’s balance it up with the crap that Gordon B introduced ..all politicians come up with these schemes to grab headlines with no way of knowing how they are implemented and how difficult it makes people’s lives

Why? It's absolutely disgusting. Poorly thought through from the start. And they want claimants to claim AFTER a full month - it's backdated. It's also paid monthly rather than weekly. Iain Duncan-Smith proudly proclaims on TV that claimants will learn how to budget through a month to make it last, he is that woefully out of touch - we have so many dreadful senior politicians on both sides of the house, but he really is one of the worst of the lot. How many penniless drug addicts has he met? You think they'll be lucid enough to plan over a month? Give me strength.

My wife sees the damage this is causing in her job. So does anyone who works at a soup kitchen or food bank. Ask [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] what he thinks of UC. And this is all going under the radar while the Tories make a total mess of Brexit.

The current crop of Tories have been undoubtedly the worst government in living memory, but this country gets the government it deserves, IMO. I've never been so embarrassed by our political classes as I am now.

 

[darkwolf666]

Benefits have always been difficult to apply for, but that is not the point.

We recently applied for PIP for our autistic son. He had to have a face to face interview which, thankfully, my wife was also allowed to attend. It was conducted by an outside agency. When the report came back from them, the write up from the interview was a very biased interpretation of what was said eg my son said that he can make toast, therefore they took that as meaning that he can cook a meal for himself (he can't). He also said that he might be able to catch a bus to college - what he didn't say and they did not ask was whether he could do that on his own (he cannot - in fact he up to that point he never went out on his own, ever). Anyway, as a result he was not awarded anything.

We appealed and had to get all sorts of reports from as many agencies as possible to back up what we were saying. The review is carried out by the DWP and not the outside agency. After the appeal, he was awarded full PIP! So they went from awarding nothing to awarding the full amount. Bonkers really, and he has to reapply in 3 years time which will be fun.

So I am afraid the moral of the story is to persevere. But I agree with others, anyone with mental health issues doing this on their own would get nowhere.

I know where you are coming from, I have attended 2 PIP assessments for the two grandchildren my wife and I look after, both were very different experiences.

Fortunately as their appointee I was allowed to speak up in their assessments and point out when they were getting things wrong! It’s bloody hard work, and very draining...

 

[Simster]

disjointed sytem replaced by broken system, but all anyone will do is argue over the politics rather than the implementation. not sure why they bothered with "pilot" areas since they are rolling out regardless. should stop reanalyse and fix it first.

True, the previous system needed an enormous overhaul, but this is an appalling mess. I'm not arguing over the politics particularly, but the way it has been implemented has only served to highlight how incompetent those in charge have been. As said before, being paid monthly and one month in arrears absolutely screams out of touch incompetence.

You want people to talk about the implementation rather than the politics and that is purely because you are a conservative voter at heart. But let's be clear about this, when incompetent millionaires born into privilege implement these measures without a second's thought for the issues the claimants are clearly going to come across, what sane person isn't going to conclude that the top brass in the Tory party is crammed full of selfish, incompetent idiots?

 

[GT49er]

She's lucky to have you.

It's not just UC that is unnecessarily difficult (though I'm sure it is made deliberately hard). I've had cause recently to us a a few different 'digital identity' solutions in conjunction with accessing a number of local govt services and the experience has been - and I say this as a literate, intelligent, moderately patient, computer savvy desk-monkey - a kafkaesque head****.

It's not just UC that is causing increasing difficulties to many sections of the community. In the past few years I have discovered many things that we can't do in this country now without photo ID.
* You can't sell a car to a dealer, or trade it in.
* You can't scrap a car (not through a scrap dealer anyway).
* You can't close an investment/assurance account and transfer the balance to your own current account (even though they're in the same name) - to do this I eventually had to go to the bank with my daughter and son-in-law in person with their ID to verify that my proofs of residence (utility bills, etc.), and my birth certificate were real and actually applied to me.

These non-Government organisations all expect to take photocopies of your photo ID too, so the potential for misuse or identity theft increases all the time -all, apparently in the name of preventing money laundering (tough how me selling a second hand car that I've owned for several years - insured, with docs. to prove it, and registered in my name and address at the DVLA - can be construed as a attempt by me to launder money I'm at a loss to understand.

 

[beorhthelm]

True, the previous system needed an enormous overhaul, but this is an appalling mess. I'm not arguing over the politics particularly, but the way it has been implemented has only served to highlight how incompetent those in charge have been. As said before, being paid monthly and one month in arrears absolutely screams out of touch incompetence.

You want people to talk about the implementation rather than the politics and that is purely because you are a conservative voter at heart. But let's be clear about this, when incompetent millionaires born into privilege implement these measures without a second's thought for the issues the claimants are clearly going to come across, what sane person isn't going to conclude that the top brass in the Tory party is crammed full of selfish, incompetent idiots?

completely agree, they should have set out the policy for change and left it to competent people to analyse and implement properly. moving all benefits into a single payment, with graduated roll-on, roll-off, good idea. having payments monthly just like salaried people, noble but misguided (ignoring many paid weekly). paying so much in arrears downright stupid. not to mention the time to process claims, 4-6 weeks, is incompetence. if loan company can assess you in an hour, im sure benefits can be assess and calculated in a week, if not the system isnt going to work so dont do it untill you can. trouble is the politicans argue over the original policy, so entrench themselves in that, change becomes a sign of weakness screams of "u-turn" if they do etc.

 

[LamieRobertson]

UC...in my mind will always bring the gruesome picture of IDS punching the air when it was voted through...as others have said ...such poorly thought out implementation

 

[aberllefenni]

I don't think it was ill thought out, IDS and his cohorts knew exactly what they were doing and the probable consequences of their decisions. A friend of mine who, up until recently, trained new CAB advisors for the whole of the south-west of England told me what would happen well before its implementation. As for Chicken Run, all I can say is thank f**k I dont encounter this kind of "I'm alright Jack" attitude too many times.

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

Benefits have always been difficult to apply for, but that is not the point.

We recently applied for PIP for our autistic son. He had to have a face to face interview which, thankfully, my wife was also allowed to attend. It was conducted by an outside agency. When the report came back from them, the write up from the interview was a very biased interpretation of what was said eg my son said that he can make toast, therefore they took that as meaning that he can cook a meal for himself (he can't). He also said that he might be able to catch a bus to college - what he didn't say and they did not ask was whether he could do that on his own (he cannot - in fact he up to that point he never went out on his own, ever). Anyway, as a result he was not awarded anything.

We appealed and had to get all sorts of reports from as many agencies as possible to back up what we were saying. The review is carried out by the DWP and not the outside agency. After the appeal, he was awarded full PIP! So they went from awarding nothing to awarding the full amount. Bonkers really, and he has to reapply in 3 years time which will be fun.

So I am afraid the moral of the story is to persevere. But I agree with others, anyone with mental health issues doing this on their own would get nowhere.

Ditto for my brother who is registered disabled with walking difficulties. He was rejected (without an interview) and then won on appeal (without an interview). Their approach just seems to be to say no in the first instance and only reconsider it on appeal.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Ditto for my brother who is registered disabled with walking difficulties. He was rejected (without an interview) and then won on appeal (without an interview). Their approach just seems to be to say no in the first instance and only reconsider it on appeal.

Around this time last year my dad was diagnosed and signed up for UC, they still haven't got the correct amount now! It's a complete farce having to talk to people over an online journal! The job centre is a real eye opener too, more guards than staff! So many people reluctant to give you answers or help.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[Cheshire Cat]

You’re clearly either on a wind up, an arse or just didn’t bother to read my OP.

You carry on in your happy little world, I truly hope no-one you know, who has a disability needs this system - actually take that back, I do, then maybe you might understand.

As I recall that was the system 30 years ago. Marred only by the fact you had to stand in a queue with the other scroats.

Isn' t progress marvellous.

 

[BLOCK F]

I just hate bureaucracy. By definition, it is the same, whatever party is in power.
Ghastly time wasting, stress inducing ,box ticking bollocks.
I am sure that a number of well intentioned initiatives, from both sides of the political spectrum, have 'hit the rocks' due to effing bureaucracy!
Grump now over!

 

[studio150]

Still I suspect all the Conservative Leader candidates will be addressing the problems of UC in their pitch to become the new PM.

 

[darkwolf666]

Still I suspect all the Conservative Leader candidates will be addressing the problems of UC in their pitch to become the new PM.

Too busy owning up to their drug habits...

 

[Simster]

I just hate bureaucracy. By definition, it is the same, whatever party is in power.
Ghastly time wasting, stress inducing ,box ticking bollocks.
I am sure that a number of well intentioned initiatives, from both sides of the political spectrum, have 'hit the rocks' due to effing bureaucracy!
Grump now over!

Yes but bureaucracy is par for the course with these things. But this level of injustice, incompetence, insensitivity and being this out of touch is what people are reasonably very angry about. All of which is entirely down to this utterly DREADFUL Conservative government.

 

[Mr Putdown]

She's lucky to have you.

It's not just UC that is unnecessarily difficult (though I'm sure it is made deliberately hard). I've had cause recently to us a a few different 'digital identity' solutions in conjunction with accessing a number of local govt services and the experience has been - and I say this as a literate, intelligent, moderately patient, computer savvy desk-monkey - a kafkaesque head****.

As a retired IT Director of a FTSE listed company, I’d suggest I’m at least relatively competent in dealing with automated systems.

Anyone else dealt with the VOA’s ongoing requirement to gather details of business properties every three years?

Their system is completely unfit for purpose, in our situation it is impossible to correctly answer the questions as our retail business covers a physical site that is part owned and part leased, a not exactly unusual situation on the high street.

But you are required by law to complete the form or you will be fined, and you cannot submit the form unless you confirm the information is factually correct. Calling the VOA, you’re told a different thing every time you call on how to complete the form, it’s a complete joke. I was told to lie and it wouldn’t matter...

It’s a £5k fine for a false declaration.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Now I like to think I’m a reasonably intelligent man (being on these boards may indicate otherwise).

My granddaughter has just left college at age 19, she has mild learning difficulties and zero understanding as to how life works.

She wants to get an apprenticeship in a nursery, but places are limited, so I explained to her the process of “signing on”.... wooah how out of touch am I.

Gone are the days of going into a job centre and saying “Gi’ us a job” - now before you can even get through the door of a job centre you have to register online for a Universal Credit account - there’s no longer claims for job seekers, has to be UC.

As her DWP appointee I thought, go online and get a phone number. Got the number for JobCentre Plus and after going through the press 1 for this press 2 for that discovered I couldn’t do anything unless I set her up with a UC account.

I can say, with little hesitation, that my granddaughter would not have understood how to fill out the form, even if she had had the idea to do so.

Account created, great - we just need to verify your online identity.

I then get bounced to the Experian website, which then proceeded to ask a list of questions for things that many 19 year old won’t have - passport, driving licence, citizen card, etc... suffice to say I couldn’t provide them with the information. So now she has to go for a face to face interview to prove her identity... that’s before they will even consider her UC claim!

When did these things become so difficult and why? How do people manage, with mental health issues, who haven’t got a granddad to fall back on for help.

The system REALLY is shit...

Can’t wait for the interview when I say I want to attend and help her with her answers, as she would just say “yes” to everything!

Rant over...

Years ago it was common to leave 6th form college at the end of June, sign on the dole and have your entire summer paid for. Not a great use of public money! But it’s now gone from one extreme to the other. It shouldn’t be easy to claim any benefit but UC makes it too difficult - as this post demonstrates.

 

[darkwolf666]

Years ago it was common to leave 6th form college at the end of June, sign on the dole and have your entire summer paid for. Not a great use of public money! But it’s now gone from one extreme to the other. It shouldn’t be easy to claim any benefit but UC makes it too difficult - as this post demonstrates.

Yes, I remember those days, fortunately I walked straight out of school into a proper apprenticeship in print.

My granddaughter has a great work ethic, one of the upsides of her learning difficulties, and would quite happily do pretty much any job she is fit to do... unfortunately I am not so sure the jobcentre will take the time to find out what her difficulties are!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's not just UC that is causing increasing difficulties to many sections of the community. In the past few years I have discovered many things that we can't do in this country now without photo ID.
* You can't sell a car to a dealer, or trade it in.
* You can't scrap a car (not through a scrap dealer anyway).
* You can't close an investment/assurance account and transfer the balance to your own current account (even though they're in the same name) - to do this I eventually had to go to the bank with my daughter and son-in-law in person with their ID to verify that my proofs of residence (utility bills, etc.), and my birth certificate were real and actually applied to me.

These non-Government organisations all expect to take photocopies of your photo ID too, so the potential for misuse or identity theft increases all the time -all, apparently in the name of preventing money laundering (tough how me selling a second hand car that I've owned for several years - insured, with docs. to prove it, and registered in my name and address at the DVLA - can be construed as a attempt by me to launder money I'm at a loss to understand.

We had problems with my Dad's TSB bank account when he died. My StepMum was 86, her passport had run out, and she'd never driven. We took her birth certificate, their wedding certificate and my Dad's death certificate, none of which was accepted.
Fortunately it was only £17 odd.
I ended up telling them where they could stick their account. I only hope that money went to charity.