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[Sussex] United States of Europe
- Thread starter Raskolnikov
- Start date
- Jan 3, 2012
- 17,355
Mine was a mischievous intervention more than anything else.
I don't particularly like the option I will be voting for, but it is much much much preferable to the other one in my view.
turienzo's lovechild
New member
- Oct 25, 2003
- 23,964
they'd just absolutely dominate world football. Also imagine the european championships with 24 teams- the 'USE' absolutely hammering all the non-eu members like liechtenstein
Diego Napier
Well-known member
- Mar 27, 2010
- 4,416
None of us?
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
The inevitable consequence of ever Closer Union which is at the heart of the EU project. Some on the remain side know this to be true but dare not mention it others are just deluding themselves. The EU is only heading in one direction people always has and always will .. sticking your head in the sand doesn't change anything.
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
yep I heard someone on the TV this morning saying that the IN crowd were more or less saying we were not capable of negotiating,or standing on our own two feet,****ing short memeories eh! two world wars we stood on our own until the yanks thought it might start worrying them, then they jumped in with their hobnail boots,and charged us for the pleasure (which we have only just paid off.)
It might be a bit fiesty for a few years, but we will survive like we have always, we can then restart our trade with the commonwealth.REMEMBER THEM ONE THIRD OF THE WORLD WE USED TO TRADE FREELY WITH.
we can even take doctors and nurses from the Commonwealth like we used to.
take you heads from out of your a rses, wake and smell the coffee.
footnote:- if you think we can secure our borders by staying in the EU you are living in cloud cuckoo land
Stumpy Tim
Well-known member
"Britain and Denmark would remain outside, but warned: “This new entity will still make our laws for us. “We will have very little say in what happens."
Utter nonsense. How can we be on the outside, but have laws made for us? Polar opposites! And we don't have a say in French or German laws right now. Nor should we
Utter nonsense. How can we be on the outside, but have laws made for us? Polar opposites! And we don't have a say in French or German laws right now. Nor should we
GreersElbow
New member
News to me and I just wrote a 12,500 word dissertation on the topic of fiscal federalism within the EMU.
GreersElbow
New member
If anyone seriously thinks the EU is heading towards deeper integration, then they're either 1) deluded or 2) completely unable to read the current situation within the EMU.
Firstly, the sovereign debt crisis has essentially polarised the political elites within the EU. There is no appetite for deeper integration, the sovereign 'debt' crisis polarised the EMU which if anything, would be the driving force behind deeper integration. Hollande and his buddies will be kicked out in 2017, due to their inconsistencies. Hollande parading around pre-election as an alternative to austerity, then changes his mind and becomes an advocate. As such, the French position on economic policy throughout the EMU will in no doubt change once again, creating further tensions between Paris and Berlin, seeing as they're two largest economies in the EMU.
Secondly, the political will is not there and more so political struggles will only get worse. The French are generally against deeper integration, due to the nature of the political system being similar to ours, a unitary system. They favour the ideas of sovereignty much more than the Germans who have a federal system, as such, the Germans don't really see an issue with the division of power. Not to mention De Gaulle essentially laid down the foundations for the French position of intergovernmentalism rather than federalism. The Franco-German rivalry still exists in the politics of the EU today.
We have also seen the rise of Eurosceptic parties around Europe, which have slowed down the process of integration drastically. The 4 Presidents report is yet to get an eye in, partly due to the nature of the financial crisis within Europe and the other because everyone is scared of saying the F word.
Of course, this will be dismissed by 'out'ers as a load of rubbish, because rather than reading the situation as it is; they read it as they want to see it.
Firstly, the sovereign debt crisis has essentially polarised the political elites within the EU. There is no appetite for deeper integration, the sovereign 'debt' crisis polarised the EMU which if anything, would be the driving force behind deeper integration. Hollande and his buddies will be kicked out in 2017, due to their inconsistencies. Hollande parading around pre-election as an alternative to austerity, then changes his mind and becomes an advocate. As such, the French position on economic policy throughout the EMU will in no doubt change once again, creating further tensions between Paris and Berlin, seeing as they're two largest economies in the EMU.
Secondly, the political will is not there and more so political struggles will only get worse. The French are generally against deeper integration, due to the nature of the political system being similar to ours, a unitary system. They favour the ideas of sovereignty much more than the Germans who have a federal system, as such, the Germans don't really see an issue with the division of power. Not to mention De Gaulle essentially laid down the foundations for the French position of intergovernmentalism rather than federalism. The Franco-German rivalry still exists in the politics of the EU today.
We have also seen the rise of Eurosceptic parties around Europe, which have slowed down the process of integration drastically. The 4 Presidents report is yet to get an eye in, partly due to the nature of the financial crisis within Europe and the other because everyone is scared of saying the F word.
Of course, this will be dismissed by 'out'ers as a load of rubbish, because rather than reading the situation as it is; they read it as they want to see it.
Title 4 of TSCG to name but one instrument
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Look forward to reminding you of that quote after the next Treaty is signed ... and the one after that .... and the one after that.
It works in the Ryder cup.
At least when a world cup came about, we really would have a good chance to win it, unlike the usual embarrassing exit of the England team.
Trufflehound
Re-enfranchised
Absolutely this. It's true that I tend to move in pro-European social circles, but even so I've yet to encounter a single person (of any EU nationality) who thinks deeper integration is the way forward.
And I've lived in the EMU/Euro-zone for all but 2 of the past 27 years.
It won't stop Gove's Project Fear Scaremongering that's for sure
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,016
really, this is despite of the leaders of the EU for years saying it is about further integration? are you saying that after decades they've given up on the project. certainly the follow on post suggests there are speedbumps and reasons this is slowing down, but are you saying in a decade or so (assuming it hasnt collapsed) they wont be revisiting the previous roadmap?
larus
Well-known member
That's the crux of the demise of Europe/Euro. The EURO CANNOT survive long-term unless there is FULL political/fiscal integration. That's a fact which any sensible economist would agree.
Therefore, on the assumption that you would accept the above, this is the polar opposite to the view that there won't be more integration. If there is no more integration, the EURO will eventually collapse. Once it does, then Europe will break apart as a centralised structure. You can't have it both ways now. The political strains in different countries due to the debt crisis are still there are are not going away. Christ, even with all of these creative 'free money' gimmicks of QE they can't kick-start the Eurozone. The level of output from the Eurozone is still below the pre crisis level of 2008. Europe is screwed long-term until they start to reform and regain competitiveness. 40% youth unemployment in southern countries still. Far right parties will eventually take hold more and more.
Note - if the old trading block/single market structure was in place without the EURO, it could survive. The introduction of the EURO totally changed the destination of the project. It is now either eventual collapse or full statehood (as per a US model).
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,860
Errrrr. .. Project Fear is what the IN crowd have been pushing ... not the Brexit gang.It won't stop Gove's Project Fear Scaremongering that's for sure
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