Unite,Len McCluskey & the Olympics.

[Leekbrookgull]

Remember this guy,do so much for British Leyland.http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/birmmail/jun2011/8/5/red-robbo-562507878.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2011/06/30/looking-back-when-red-robbo-put-birmingham-at-the-centre-of-industrial-strife-97319-28969091/&usg=__HvXYTJarsveee9OuklbGmL4dVqQ=&h=213&w=300&sz=32&hl=en&start=2&zoom=1&tbnid=G_UH56aYqX0S9M:&tbnh=82&tbnw=116&ei=jk5OT-bRCZSB8gOBo6jtAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dred%2Brobbo%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26rlz%3D1R2ADRA_enGB430%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1

 

[Captain Sensible]

The militant British unions are frankly envious of the strikes that happen in France and Greece and are trying desperately doing anything they can to create some militancy. What they don't realise is that there isn't that sort of militancy left in workers. Employment rights are miles miles better than they were in the 80's so while there is clearly a role for unions the power of an employer to bully their staff into submission isn't there anymore.

On the contrary, whilst workers individual right have improved under EU rulings, the power has shifted from the unions to the employers since the 80's. Employers use the courts to injunct potential strikes, thus taking away the only bargaining chip the unions have.
Employers are increasingly changing working practises against employment law, then wait for the unions to lodge objections and then wait for the unions to go to the courts. Let me tell you, 90% of the time the unions lose.

In companies all over the uk in public and private sector, the pay gap is immense with company's and the public sector wanting cheaper labour working harder. It has to stop. Workers are being exploited.
Employers have the courts and the law in their side.

 

[Captain Sensible]

McCluskey doesn't 'have to' make noises as you say - and listening to the political and public reaction to his statement he is already losing the PR battle.

I do agree that he should be sabre rattling. However his particular PR 'own goal' seems to be urging his members not just for industrial action, but public disorder too. However it is a high risk approach as the unions would probably be become even less popular than an unpopular Govt (thats not easy). Especially if the unions are seen to ignore today's urges from all 3 main parties (inc. Labour) who are all against industrial action during the Olympics. And thats before they lose public support as well. The Govt will wage a PR campaign based on no public money being available to meet the Union demands and break pay agreements unless there are further cut backs and/or job losses and/or tax hikes. The public won't stomach that. I'm not saying its right or that Unions should roll over but McCluskey seems motivated more by political posturing than a realistic pay and conditions campaign.

I can see that anyone with a grievance let alone those more organised activists could crawl out of the woodwork to try to take advantage of the Olympics because they know the world's media will have the UK under even more of microscope plus they know they can fairly readily cause disruption to joe public. It would be a shame for any good that might come out of the Olympics gets overshadowed by negative events. It's sadly ironic that the campaign to win the Olympics for London which had its origins back the days of Tony Blair's cool Britannia has become more of a political football in the very grim bankrupt economic landscape that a generation of New Labour created - and the coalition is now trying to rectify.

It will be interesting to look back in a year or so and reflect on what impact the London Olympics had (other than sporting terms) and whether it is seen as a 'cost' or an 'investment'.

I agree with many points but Unite are not on a PR battle, they know they cannot win on public opinion as they may have done in the past. Therefore making threats is their only option to get the government to negotiate on ANYTHING.
If McCluskey didn't say these types of things, his members would say he wasn't doing his job.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Ah, Red Robbo. British Leyland was always in the news for the wrong reasons.

Yes I remember him and many of his counterparts from the 70's, 'the 3 day week' and 'the winter of discontent' and all that. A lot of modernisation of industry and employment law was triggered by the endless industrial disputes that even dogged Labour governments who were more in the pockets of the Unions than now. Ultimately thats why Mrs. T. took them on. Sadly lots of jobs feel by the wayside but modernisation was gradually acheived and British industries remained competitive for longer than they might.

I recall things gradually moderated in the '80s and '90s when many union members stopped paying their political levies within their membership subcriptions in protest at out dated Labour govt policies and several unions were forced by their members to distance themselves from having traditional extreme left wing doctrines - although these still seem embedded within many senior Union officials.

 

[Superphil]

Yes. It's called socialism.

Here you go, Socialism explained:

An economics professor at a college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Socialism”. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for money – something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..

The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you’ll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

typical of unions now, no actual cause just want to strike for maximum inconvienence. i read the RMT are going to vote on strikes after rejecting a £500 Olympic bonus. yep, getting £500 extra for just turning up to work as normal, but thats not good enough.

is this really what the labour movement is about?

The £500 bonus on the table has been meddled about by Boris Johnson , would you like to work throughout the summer months without being able to take even a single day as annual leave and have your shift patterns f***ed about with extreme short notice ?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Makes me laugh how so few remember the concept of having a bargaining chip up your sleeve. Are we heading towards a Thatcherite society where the poor and elderly are conveniently forgotten about ?

 

[severnside gull]

The £500 bonus on the table has been meddled about by Boris Johnson , would you like to work throughout the summer months without being able to take even a single day as annual leave and have your shift patterns f***ed about with extreme short notice ?

the "entire" summer being a month or so and the reward being £500?

Yes I think I would, thankyou.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Makes me laugh how so few remember the concept of having a bargaining chip up your sleeve. Are we heading towards a Thatcherite society where the poor and elderly are conveniently forgotten about ?

This

 

[Superphil]

The £500 bonus on the table has been meddled about by Boris Johnson , would you like to work throughout the summer months without being able to take even a single day as annual leave and have your shift patterns f***ed about with extreme short notice ?

I work through the summer months every year, and have done since 1984, what does that have to do with anything? I take my holidays in the late spring or early autumn. As for annual leave, they already get a minimm 5 weeks a year, so there is plenty of tme thoughout the rest of the year to enjoy thier holiday time.
How does anyone know if shift patterns will be f***ed around with at extreme short notice? Until it is extreme short notice no-one can know this is going to happen. I have a friend who is a tube driver, he never has a problem arranging his holidays, and doesn't suffer extreme short notice shift changes.

 

[beorhthelm]

On the contrary, whilst workers individual right have improved under EU rulings, the power has shifted from the unions to the employers since the 80's.

no. power has shifted from the unions to the employee. there is so much legislation and protection in statute at national and EU levels that unions have little purpose thse days, so they flex the selling point they have left, collective bargining over pay, at every opportunity. they have become a businesses like any others, they sell a product and compete for cutomers.

 

[Captain Sensible]

no. power has shifted from the unions to the employee. there is so much legislation and protection in statute at national and EU levels that unions have little purpose thse days, so they flex the selling point they have left, collective bargining over pay, at every opportunity. they have become a businesses like any others, they sell a product and compete for cutomers.

In what way?
If you work for a company and your working practises are forceable changed against your contract, you have to continue to work under those imposed conditions until legal action can be taken. If you don't its called unofficial industrial action, a dismissable offence. The only body that can help fight against such issues are Unions. Unless the employee themselves has very deep pockets. You might think that a contract is an unbreakable thing, something which cannot be changed without agreement, this is not the case. A contract of any employee, be it Public or Private sector is open to interpratation by lawyers. Large companies and now the government are pushing harder and harder to reduce pay(often going back on agreed pay rises in favour of performace related and savings related pay increases), reduce penions and increase working hours. Often changing contract clauses at 90 days notice (which is legal gray area) or imposing changes in working practices. An employee has no rights in this matter unless they fight a legal battle individually if they are not in a union, or collectively if they are. The collective route is the sensible one. However, the courts are rarely on the side of the unions as our legal system heavily backs the employer. Injuctions and law suits against unions are regularly upheld. If employee's had a decent amount of individual rights then Unions would not be needed. There is an age old saying that is relevant today. "A company gets the Union it deserves", never so true.

 

[Dirk Gently]

Here you go, Socialism explained:

An economics professor at a college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Socialism”. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for money – something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..

The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you’ll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You seem to be completely failing to understand that socialism =/= communism.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I work through the summer months every year, and have done since 1984, what does that have to do with anything? I take my holidays in the late spring or early autumn. As for annual leave, they already get a minimm 5 weeks a year, so there is plenty of tme thoughout the rest of the year to enjoy thier holiday time.
How does anyone know if shift patterns will be f***ed around with at extreme short notice? Until it is extreme short notice no-one can know this is going to happen. I have a friend who is a tube driver, he never has a problem arranging his holidays, and doesn't suffer extreme short notice shift changes.

I would be pissed off if I was a Tube worker who was told last year there would be a restriction in taking annual leave during the Olympics and made arrangements only to find out no-one is allowed to take their holidays in this period. TfL are prepared to make a £15 payment if a worker's shift is altered with less than 24 hours notice.

 

[Superphil]

You seem to be completely failing to understand that socialism =/= communism.

Not failing anything, I just copied and pasted it, it was headed up 'Socialism Explained'. Which bits don't translate?