[TV] UKIP: The First 100 days. Channel 4 - 9:00PM

[Buzzer]

Learning from history and global politics, far-right governments will only ever result in one thing. An authoritarian state that is nigh impossible to remove.

We can take clues from their policies - more prisons, more guns, harsher laws, classism. It is reasonable to predict that their true nature would be magnified if they ever gained any kind of power - it is the same all over the world, every democratic country has a UKIP... but only the unfortunate ones ever give them power.

Can you do me a favour and pop along to the Tate Modern sometime soon and have a look at the Conflict, Time Photography exhibition? There's plenty of photographs of the torture rooms used by Gaddafi and his cronies that he employed to keep his socialist authoritarian, non-democratic government at the top. I know you're a big fanboy of these types of Middle East regimes but even someone as monumentally blind as you might just hesitate at lecturing the rest of us what you think a democratic country might look like in the future after seeing what an undemocratic one that you support looked like for real.

 

[Simster]

I can't take seriously what [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] says when he talks about evil fascist regimes, consumerism and so on when you consider his chucklesome views on North Korea. They just defy belief.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

And now the follow up documentary (same channel) "The Romanians are Coming!"

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

I didn't watch it and I'm no UKIP apologist but I have to say that I am uncomfortable that ANY major broadcaster sees fit to show a programme on the premise of any given party taking control in this country in an election year. It just seems wrong to me.

Can't see a problem, surely we are all mature enough to recognise a fictional story when we read it, or have you never read any George Orwell?

Provided CH4 have used the usual disclaimer " All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. " then legally, where is there a risk of people confusing reality with fiction?

It is a satire, just as has been mentioned, were 'Yes Minister', 'The Thick of It', 'The New Statesman ', ' The Great Dictator ', even Shakespeare's ' Richard III ' etc. It may have focussed on a UKIP Govt, but the message is one of how power corrupts people.

 

[mikeyjh]

Did people complain when (amongst others) Yes Minister was poking fun at the Tories or The Thick of It was poking fun at Labour? UKIP supporters seem to have very thin skin.

In fairness, The thick of it poked fun at all 3 major parties.....

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And now the follow up documentary (same channel) "The Romanians are Coming!"

Indeed they are ..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31519319

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Ahem, Clacton? Rochester and Strood?

and in May looks like Rotherham , Boston & Skegness and Great Grimsby plus a few other winnable target seats will turn purple.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Indeed they are ..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31519319

Those figures don't account for the number of Romanians entering the UK illegally in the previous 10 years who subsequently claimed asylum as Roma gypsies.

 

[Dick Head]

I just thought it was a bit shit.

 

[brightn'ove]

Learning from history and global politics, far-right governments will only ever result in one thing. An authoritarian state that is nigh impossible to remove.

Careful ... that is exactly the opposite argument I think you've used for supporting communism, but learning from history...

 

[cunning fergus]

Farage is there to represent ALL his electorate, EVEN the ones who arrive here illeagally, NOT solely the ones who put a cross against his name.

If he won't turn up then he isn't doing his job - simple as that. At best it's wasting taxpayers money. At worst, it's a dereliction of duty.

He is a public servant and should behave like one.

He does represent his whole constituency, however he will discharge his responsibilities in accordance with the strategy he set out to the voters during run up to the election.

Like any other MP he doesnt have to repsesent the interests of ALL the constituents. Cameron wont introduce non conservative policies just because some people didnt vote Tory in the election.

One last point, you may be conflating what an MP does with what a MEP does. In the UK when MPs are in power they are essentially the legislative designers and influencers, and they have the right to put draft legislation before the HoP and subsequently the HoL in order to put that onto the UK statute book.

In Europe it is the Commission that design the legislation, and these are the people you do not elect or have any responsibility to the electorate. MEPs may be on committees that can influence legislation however their powers only extend to the approval of legislation created by the Commission, so they are more like our HoL.

The people who elect UKIP dont want them to have a job with the EU, they wont care that they dont discharge their responsibility...................they dont want anyone to have that responsibility in the first place; which is why they voted for them.

 

[pastafarian]

However, the thought of living in a far-right Britain is scary

I get it,you have scared yourself into thinking UKIP is "far right"

however this is still avoiding the original question.

given what you said

A party like UKIP, if they hypothetically got into power, would almost certainly change the rules so they stayed in power. It is a genuinely terrifying thought,

what rules would UKIP change to keep themselves in power for ever?

 

[cunning fergus]

But realistically, with devolution in N. Ireland, Sinn Fein have won their battle. The House of Commons doesn't have real juristiction in N. Ireland any more - they may make the laws, but Stormont is the executive power that makes the decisions.

You must be mad or stupid; do you actually think those who vote for SinnFein want no more than power devolved from the HoC...................is that what you think the troubles were about?

Sorry to lay this surpise on you however the current status quo is merely the current means to their ultimate political end, and it won't be for NI to remain part of GB or be an independent state.

Little wonder you are confused about why people vote for UKIP.

 

[cunning fergus]

Those figures don't account for the number of Romanians entering the UK illegally in the previous 10 years who subsequently claimed asylum as Roma gypsies.

The numbers we should be looking at are new NI numbers, you need one to get access to benefits:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../file/380192/NINo_Analytical_Report_Nov14.pdf

From the Summary Report………..

“The number of NINO registrations to adult overseas nationals from EU2 nationals (Bulgaria and Romania) in the 12 months to September 2014 was 135 thousand, an increase of 107 thousand (373%) on the previous year.”

Last few years the numbers of new NINOs has been 500k plus……………….

 

[GT49er]

Provided CH4 have used the usual disclaimer " All characters appearing in this work are fictitious......then legally, where is there a risk of people confusing reality with fiction?

But the characters weren't fictitious.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The numbers we should be looking at are new NI numbers, you need one to get access to benefits:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../file/380192/NINo_Analytical_Report_Nov14.pdf

From the Summary Report………..

“The number of NINO registrations to adult overseas nationals from EU2 nationals (Bulgaria and Romania) in the 12 months to September 2014 was 135 thousand, an increase of 107 thousand (373%) on the previous year.”

Last few years the numbers of new NINOs has been 500k plus……………….

NI number gets them access to schools, NHS and other benefits. The question needs to be asked, how much is the government getting in, compared to what is being paid out. If these people are earning under 10k a year then they are paying zero tax, how does that help fund our services in the long term. No benefits for at least 5-10 years until they have contributed enough to the system would be a fair way of doing things.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

He does represent his whole constituency, however he will discharge his responsibilities in accordance with the strategy he set out to the voters during run up to the election.

Like any other MP he doesnt have to repsesent the interests of ALL the constituents. Cameron wont introduce non conservative policies just because some people didnt vote Tory in the election.

One last point, you may be conflating what an MP does with what a MEP does. In the UK when MPs are in power they are essentially the legislative designers and influencers, and they have the right to put draft legislation before the HoP and subsequently the HoL in order to put that onto the UK statute book.

In Europe it is the Commission that design the legislation, and these are the people you do not elect or have any responsibility to the electorate. MEPs may be on committees that can influence legislation however their powers only extend to the approval of legislation created by the Commission, so they are more like our HoL.

The people who elect UKIP dont want them to have a job with the EU, they wont care that they dont discharge their responsibility...................they dont want anyone to have that responsibility in the first place; which is why they voted for them.

Then UKIP are hypocrites for even fielding candidates in European Elections.

By all means field Westminster candidates and seek a lawful EU exit if they wish. BUT, to seek membership of an organisation (The European Parliament) they do not recognise as having a legitimate right to exist strikes me as hypocritical as a member of the Labour party joining the Conservatives for the sole pupose of smearing the Conservative candidate come election time. Or a Brighton fan sacrificing his season ticket, and going to Selhurst Park, for the sole purpose of giving Crystal Palace a bad name.

Maybe Farage sees himself as an 'agent provocateur', but the reality is he is just guilty of democratic vandalism. ( Vandal = " a person who deliberately destroys or damages property belonging to others. " )

 

[Westdene Seagull]

By all means field Westminster candidates and seek a lawful EU exit if they wish. BUT, to seek membership of an organisation (The European Parliament) they do not recognise as having a legitimate right to exist strikes me as hypocritical as a member of the Labour party joining the Conservatives for the sole pupose of smearing the Conservative candidate come election time. Or a Brighton fan sacrificing his season ticket, and going to Selhurst Park, for the sole purpose of giving Crystal Palace a bad name.

Rather out there examples in reality as you can join both the Conservatives and the CP Season Ticket club just by paying your membership fees. You have to be democratically elected to the European Parliament. A vast majority of those that voted UKIP in those elections did with the full knowledge of how UKIP act there - it's once of the reasons I voted for them. It is much easier to bring down an organisation from within by exposing its corrupt underbelly with inside knowledge.

Besides, the main parties have only ever been pro-EU which has always produced the ever wrong statement from pro-EU'ers "Well people have always voted for the main parties so the EU can't be much of an issue".

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

NI number gets them access to schools, NHS and other benefits. The question needs to be asked, how much is the government getting in, compared to what is being paid out. If these people are earning under 10k a year then they are paying zero tax, how does that help fund our services in the long term. No benefits for at least 5-10 years until they have contributed enough to the system would be a fair way of doing things.

A group of around 20 Romanians settled in Grimsby in 2003 , being indefinite leave to stay after claiming asylum. AFAIK none of the adults have ever worked since they arrived.

 

[spring hall convert]

Ahem, Clacton? Rochester and Strood?

Yeah, that was one in the eye for Westminster.