UKIP & the anti-fascist lot

[DavidinSouthampton]

I want to leave the EU...When it was EFTA it was deemed a good trade policy and it worked both ways,but slowly and surely the political spider weaved it's web...we had a large merchent navy,a great fishing fleet and fishing grounds...because of Europe... we have had to burn a lot of our fishing boats,we subsidise French Farmers,we pay £50 million a day for the privilege of not being masters in our own house.
My Grandfather fought and died a week before the WW1 ended...my father fought and was wounded in WW2...to keep Europe from being dominated by a political monster...if Europe is so great how come they have not signed off the accounts for 13 years....due to so much corruption?
.but I wish you well.

I don't want to leave the EU.

My Grandfather was blown up as a stretcher bearer in Northern France at the Battle of Loos in 1915, and invalided out of the Army soon after. He had 4 brothers, one of whom was seriously wounded - shot through the head but survived - and another did not come back. I can remember some of his stories about things he saw during the war, and I can remember, at about the age of 10, hearing him say that the only good German was a dead German. Although I was only about 10 or 12, that desperately upset me (not that I showed it at the time), and my upbringing has always been to be tolerant and not to write whole sections of mankind off like that.

My father was a radio operator during the war, in France and Germany. I can never remember him talking in detail about his wartime experiences (he died in 1970, when I was 17), but I do remember hearing him talk about driving in to Cologne, "which was two piles of rubble at the side of the road". And I have since heard from my Brother that he did recount experiences of being in berlin after the war and having to cut down the bodies of Germans who had been hung (lynched) by other Germans because of their allegiances. But my father went to evening classes to learn French and then German and although my parents never went abroad as a couple, as far as I am aware, they were always accepting of all things European.

I first went to france at the age of 13 on a school exchange in 1966, and loved it. I have had study, work and social contact with Europe - particularly france - ever since, and my take on it all is that we are - as my mother used to say - "all the same under the skin".

So I can not see any sense at all in any moves to come out of Europe, take the heavily blinkered mr Farage with a hefty pinch of salt, recognise the importance of Europe as a place for us to trade and to be part of in that respect and, rather than coming out of Europe, would much prefer us to stay in, become as influential as we can, and make it work. And if the answer is that it is so broke that it will not work (and I don't believe that is the case), I would want us to be involved in an orderly break-up and be heavily instrumental in the development of whatever might come after.

Sorry to go on for so long. I have found it helpful hearing other people explain why they feel as they do, so......

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I generally distrust ANY politician talking about common sense as it invariably means they're about to propose something shallow, ill thought out and with no regards to the consequences, designed to pander to the latest shrill, cynical fake national emergency fabricated by the tabloid culture of the media.

 

[dougdeep]

There's currently 3 or 4 on the front page of NSC and it's really not what we're all about, is it?

I disagree. NSC has never been just about the Albion or even just about football.

 

[Simster]

I generally distrust ANY politician talking about common sense as it invariably means they're about to propose something shallow, ill thought out and with no regards to the consequences, designed to pander to the latest shrill, cynical fake national emergency fabricated by the tabloid culture of the media.

I tend to agree. Anyone talking about common sense ignores the simple fact that everybody has a different frame of reference as to what common sense actually means.

Classic oft-used example:
1) We should restrict child benefit to the first 2 children only. It's common sense that we shouldn't be supporting chavs have six kids all paid for by the state.
2) Common sense dictates that no child should be born into poverty. We have a responsibility to ensure all children have the best chance possible in life.

Two viewpoints that the extremes on either side will consider common sense, when in reality it is anything but.

 

[piersa]

http://www.ukip.org/index.php/issues/2013-01-25-10-55-7/local-2013

This is the last maifesto for ukip for the county elections. Make of it what you will but please don't get your knickers in a twist about it. Thanks.

 

[beorhthelm]

Classic oft-used example:
1) We should restrict child benefit to the first 2 children only. It's common sense that we shouldn't be supporting chavs have six kids all paid for by the state.
2) Common sense dictates that no child should be born into poverty. We have a responsibility to ensure all children have the best chance possible in life.

Two viewpoints that the extremes on either side will consider common sense, when in reality it is anything but.

or both are right? if not, which one do you disagree with? "common sence" doesnt mean there cant be a contradiction. this is the problem with most politics today, a lack of facing up to exactly this sort of dilema and thinking of a way forward.

 

[Simster]

or both are right? if not, which one do you disagree with? "common sence" doesnt mean there cant be a contradiction. this is the problem with most politics today, a lack of facing up to exactly this sort of dilema and thinking of a way forward.

So two chavs have six kids and live off the state. They knew this before they had those kids. Cutting four lots of child benefit could put the family before the poverty line.

Equally, if we had a limit of child benefit for two kids, and those chavs had more which meant they ended up below the poverty line, what good are we doing the kids by depriving their family their extra child benefit?

 

[Seagull on the wing]

I don't want to leave the EU.

My Grandfather was blown up as a stretcher bearer in Northern France at the Battle of Loos in 1915, and invalided out of the Army soon after. He had 4 brothers, one of whom was seriously wounded - shot through the head but survived - and another did not come back. I can remember some of his stories about things he saw during the war, and I can remember, at about the age of 10, hearing him say that the only good German was a dead German. Although I was only about 10 or 12, that desperately upset me (not that I showed it at the time), and my upbringing has always been to be tolerant and not to write whole sections of mankind off like that.

My father was a radio operator during the war, in France and Germany. I can never remember him talking in detail about his wartime experiences (he died in 1970, when I was 17), but I do remember hearing him talk about driving in to Cologne, "which was two piles of rubble at the side of the road". And I have since heard from my Brother that he did recount experiences of being in berlin after the war and having to cut down the bodies of Germans who had been hung (lynched) by other Germans because of their allegiances. But my father went to evening classes to learn French and then German and although my parents never went abroad as a couple, as far as I am aware, they were always accepting of all things European.

I first went to france at the age of 13 on a school exchange in 1966, and loved it. I have had study, work and social contact with Europe - particularly france - ever since, and my take on it all is that we are - as my mother used to say - "all the same under the skin".

So I can not see any sense at all in any moves to come out of Europe, take the heavily blinkered mr Farage with a hefty pinch of salt, recognise the importance of Europe as a place for us to trade and to be part of in that respect and, rather than coming out of Europe, would much prefer us to stay in, become as influential as we can, and make it work. And if the answer is that it is so broke that it will not work (and I don't believe that is the case), I would want us to be involved in an orderly break-up and be heavily instrumental in the development of whatever might come after.

Sorry to go on for so long. I have found it helpful hearing other people explain why they feel as they do, so......

There is no problem with you 'going on' as you put it...it's what a forum is for...far better to say how you feel than just put 'this' as a lazy reply.
You Sir, are certainly entitled to your opinion, as I said in another post it's all about opinions...I'm not saying we should destroy Europe for one minute,I have good friends in France and Denmark but I cannot see one possible advantage of being part of the EU,We should look after this country first...sort out the NHS...see that our elderly and vunerable are well. Think what could be done with the £50m a day we spend to be in the EU,we run a trade deficit with the EU...there is no way they would stop trading with us...tarriffs...that need'nt happen because if they tax our exports we'd tax theirs. During the 50s and 60s you could stroll along Brighton,Eastbourne,Hastings seafronts and see hundreds of little fishing boats...apart from Hastings where do you see them now..apart from the odd one or two...mostly destroyed by EU fishing quota's...in OUR waters.
As for being influential...just when did the unelected body I say unelected body...(if you don't like a French or German or any over politician in Brussels have you tried voting them out...) in Brussels ever listen to us.
Coming out of Europe and running our own country again does not mean turning your back on our neighbours ...it means we make our rules and regulations and not some no face in Brussels.
I'm thankful we did'nt join the Euro...we may not be booming but apart from Germany every other nation is finding it harder to balance the books....which is something the EU have failed to do for 13 years.
Thank you,but no apologies for rambling on....

 

[Soulman]

There is no problem with you 'going on' as you put it...it's what a forum is for...far better to say how you feel than just put 'this' as a lazy reply.
You Sir, are certainly entitled to your opinion, as I said in another post it's all about opinions...I'm not saying we should destroy Europe for one minute,I have good friends in France and Denmark but I cannot see one possible advantage of being part of the EU,We should look after this country first...sort out the NHS...see that our elderly and vunerable are well. Think what could be done with the £50m a day we spend to be in the EU,we run a trade deficit with the EU...there is no way they would stop trading with us...tarriffs...that need'nt happen because if they tax our exports we'd tax theirs. During the 50s and 60s you could stroll along Brighton,Eastbourne,Hastings seafronts and see hundreds of little fishing boats...apart from Hastings where do you see them now..apart from the odd one or two...mostly destroyed by EU fishing quota's...in OUR waters.
As for being influential...just when did the unelected body I say unelected body...(if you don't like a French or German or any over politician in Brussels have you tried voting them out...) in Brussels ever listen to us.
Coming out of Europe and running our own country again does not mean turning your back on our neighbours ...it means we make our rules and regulations and not some no face in Brussels.
I'm thankful we did'nt join the Euro...we may not be booming but apart from Germany every other nation is finding it harder to balance the books....which is something the EU have failed to do for 13 years.
Thank you,but no apologies for rambling on....

Good post.