UKIP Surge Ahead!

[WATFORD zero]

Why do all the UKIP supporters think that the major parties don't want a vote on Europe ?

Could it be so they can keep 'control' over the electorate by ignoring them ?
Is it because it makes their jobs easier running a country within the EU ?
Is it because they retain more power operating from within the EU ?
Is it because they can make more money individually by remaining in the EU ?

Or could it just be that anyone who may have a realistic chance of leading, forming or contributing to a government in the UK realise that it would be economic suicide to leave ?

*edit* Put far more eloquently by my learned friend above

 

[El Presidente]

Perhaps the worst thing the pro-EU camp have done is put fluffy-haired, unprincipled, VI Form-esque politico, Nick Clegg up against Nigel Farage.

Farage is clearly quite good at what he does right now, and Clegg isn't. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the pro-EU wing of British politics get their act together, take UKIP seriously and take them on with proper economics. I do feel Farage has the easier job, hoovering up votes from the less well informed and disaffected Tories, but remain convinced that a half decent politician with a background in economics would absolutely wipe the floor with him.

I see the same thing happening on here - anti-EU [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] has been nothing if not utterly convincing so often on here, except when pro-EU [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] presents his own facts. It's no surprise that El Pres is an economist and is the only person cunning fergus ends up retorting rather feebly to.

I'm not pro-EU, I'm pro economic growth. If getting out of the EU delivered that I'd be first to say au revoir Francois.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Why do all the UKIP supporters think that the major parties don't want a vote on Europe ?

Because they know there is a strong chance of the vote being lost and their gravy train drying up ? After all, if the British voters deliver the "wrong" verdict they'll struggle to do what the EU normally does when it doesn't get the answer it wants - make people vote again until they get the "right" answer. Just ask the Irish what happens when you revolt against the EU.

 

[Simster]

I'm not pro-EU, I'm pro economic growth. If getting out of the EU delivered that I'd be first to say au revoir Francois.

I know, but as you told me on FB once, you don't know a single anti-EU economist, and seemingly nor do many media outlets!

 

[WATFORD zero]

Because they know there is a strong chance of the vote being lost and their gravy train drying up ?

The gravy train that as you are always telling us, costs us more than we make ?

 

[c0lz]

This.

People really overestimate the importance of the UK in the world economy. We are tiny by comparison to US, China etc and if we were to leave the EU would become an irrelevance.

It is only our being a member if a much larger organisation that gives us a say.

Sorry but what a load off old bull

 

[The Birdman]

I voted for Europe the first time around thinking we needed to be trading together not to be governed by a federal Europe however to go back to trading with all our old friends Australia and New Zealand who have developed new markets in China and Japan would not work. So if we stay in Europe we need a strong Government to renegotiate our terms of membership as believe its to late to go back to old ways. However I will not say who this should but you will all get your chance to vote in May Elections just be careful of what you vote for! We are still very close to slipping back to a recession.
I don't care to much for myself I am an old fart but I have many youngsters in our family and I want them to have a better future and to able to afford the ticket prices when we reach the Premership.

 

[Simster]

Sorry but what a load off old bull

http://money.cnn.com/news/economy/world_economies_gdp/


As part of the EU, we are somewhere between the US and China. On our own, our economy is around a sixth the size of the US and a quarter of China.

 

[El Presidente]

I know, but as you told me on FB once, you don't know a single anti-EU economist, and seemingly nor do many media outlets!

Perhaps [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] or [MENTION=1079]Milton Keynes Seagull[/MENTION] could book a ticket and speak at the following, as we are struggling for anyone to put together a cohesive, non-emotional based case for EU withdrawal.

http://www.liv.ac.uk/heseltine-institute/policy-provocations/eu/

 

[c0lz]

http://money.cnn.com/news/economy/world_economies_gdp/


As part of the EU, we are somewhere between the US and China. On our own, our economy is around a sixth the size of the US and a quarter of China.

Meaning what?

 

[Machiavelli]

Because they know there is a strong chance of the vote being lost and their gravy train drying up ? After all, if the British voters deliver the "wrong" verdict they'll struggle to do what the EU normally does when it doesn't get the answer it wants - make people vote again until they get the "right" answer. Just ask the Irish what happens when you revolt against the EU.

What is this gravy train that you're on about?

 

[Simster]

Meaning what?

We are indeed tiny compared to the US and Chinese trading blocks, unless we trade as part of the EU.

 

[fruitnveg]

A country approximately 44 times larger than ours by landmass, with approximately 21 times the population and our economy is only a quarter of the size? Yes, of course, we're tiny.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What is this gravy train that you're on about?

Many a British politician has gone on to work within the EU structure. Despite being anti-EU Neil Kinnock ( and his wife ) have made a fair amount of money working for the EU. That doesn't account for the MEP's of all parties ( including UKIP ) who rake in disgustingly high salaries and expense claims.

The EU is, and always has been, a political experiment to merge the various independent countries of Europe into one. The EU as we know it today had it's blueprints drawn up when the UK was asked to vote for the Common Market. Heath stated in a number of interviews that the plan was always a United States of Europe but that in the early seventies this couldn't be divulged to the UK voters as they would have voted against joining.

 

[beorhthelm]

We are indeed tiny compared to the US and Chinese trading blocks, unless we trade as part of the EU.

interesting perspective as being part of a bloc can restrict opportunities to trade. as part of the EU we are unable to establish free trade with say China or Columbia, and as the EU have vested interests to block trade with some countries on many markets, they hamper UK business. the EU is a protectionist club. i know this isn't always the case, but by and large being part of the EU only impacts positively on trade with those other nations.

 

[Simster]

interesting perspective as being part of a bloc can restrict opportunities to trade. as part of the EU we are unable to establish free trade with say China or Columbia, and as the EU have vested interests to block trade with some countries on many markets, they hamper UK business. the EU is a protectionist club. i know this isn't always the case, but by and large being part of the EU only impacts positively on trade with those other nations.

Of course we aren't able to establish free trade with China, and why on earth would we? I'd rather be negotiating as part of a larger bloc, otherwise we would get fleeced at the negotiating table with China knowing any deal was more important to us than the other way round given the size of the respective countries.

 

[sahel]

I really, really hope you're trying to be ironic...

My point -probably badly made -was that scaremongering has not done ukip any harm. It is what they do and apparently they are about to win the euro election

 

[beorhthelm]

Of course we aren't able to establish free trade with China, and why on earth would we? I'd rather be negotiating as part of a larger bloc, otherwise we would get fleeced at the negotiating table with China knowing any deal was more important to us than the other way round given the size of the respective countries.

market size/scale isn't necessarily dependent on country size apart from that, why assume we'd be fleeced on free trade either way? you only stand to open up markets in trade negotiations even if not aiming for completely free trade. as it is, as an example, we have tariffs to import electronic components to assemble in the EU to protect component manufacturing interests elsewhere in EU, making it uneconomical to start electronics manufacture here in the UK even though other costs may be lower. i believe full global free trade is the best way forward (over all, there will be consequences), and the EU is currently an obstacle to this.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Many a British politician has gone on to work within the EU structure. Despite being anti-EU Neil Kinnock ( and his wife ) have made a fair amount of money working for the EU. That doesn't account for the MEP's of all parties ( including UKIP ) who rake in disgustingly high salaries and expense claims.

So you believe that the EU is actually a pension scheme for ex and failed MPs and that is the reason why major parties don't want a referendum ?

 

[c0lz]

We are indeed tiny compared to the US and Chinese trading blocks, unless we trade as part of the EU.

Just makes you wonder how the other smaller non- EU nationals are struggling and how did we ever survived before joining in the EU.