UKIP are now a parliamentary party

[Pretty pink fairy]

I am interested to know the following in order to asses if leaving the EU is good or bad, and since as you seem to advocate it you are a good person to ask these questions as you must know.
If we leave the EU toady what would be the percentage difference in the UK's GDP be, say, 10 years time compared to if we stay?
Also, for the case of local services, how much would the survival rate per thousand cases for cancer change if we leave the EU?

Find out when we leave the EU ,one things for sure its £ 55 million more a day than what we would have had and as for throwing cancer victims in the mix shame on you
regards
DR

 

[Bold Seagull]

you're running scared with statements like that, you might think you're clever but in reality you're out of touch with the real world
regards
DR

Great answer!

 

[BadFish]

Quid pro quo? Although the irony of being lectured to about British immigration from chaps who emigrated from here will be sorely missed.

Don't worry I am not going anywhere. I will still be around to set you 'racist' fellas straight.

 

[Grombleton]

Blimey, he's not Mystic Meg, why not ask for next weeks lottery numbers and who will win the Grand National in 2024 while you are at it.

True, but you'd hope that any party claiming such facts has done the number crunching in order to justify the claims? And ideally publish those findings in order to continue some semblance of transparency? Otherwise, how can people trust a party if they're not giving them the full facts? (that's not aimed directly at UKIP as I'm aware that can be levelled at any party, more of a general question).

 

[BadFish]

Only when you do
regards
DR

Done!

I am willing to sacrifice myself for the greater good.

Regards
BF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Great answer!

They always are
regards
DR

 

[vegster]

I think it is important to know. If you are advocating changing something you should know exactly how it compares to the current system. Otherwise how can you work out if it is better or worse?



I have limited economic knowledge but I would imagine that it is not as simple as that as there would be banking, industrial and import/export considerations to makes as well. And survival rates for diseases is a very important thing to consider, especially something like cancer which is likely to have an effect on most people (even if not directly). We need to ensure that we make improvements to this and not go backwards, all I am asking is will being part of the EU achieve this or not?

I think that Nigel will have to take you down the pub for the evening and buy you enough pints until you see common sense, and then do the same for the rest of us.

 

[BadFish]

This is a very popular notion but haven't statistics shown time and time again that immigration isn't anywhere near as big of a problem as people make it out to be? I'm sure there was a tv show on over the summer and the jist was a group of people moaned about immigrants, met some people that recently moved to the UK, moaned to them "how dare you try and make a better life for you and your family" (etc.) and then they had people come on and basically say that immigrants have minimal impact on the likes of benefits, the NHS and the job market et al and it most of what the likes of the Daily Fail and UKIP tout is just a lot of hot air that gets people attention.

All those things you mention are affected by many many factors. Few of which are taken into account on these anti immigration threads. It seems that is you are willing to blame immigrations for lives woes you are also willing to ignore many other things.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I think it is important to know. If you are advocating changing something you should know exactly how it compares to the current system. Otherwise how can you work out if it is better or worse?



I have limited economic knowledge but I would imagine that it is not as simple as that as there would be banking, industrial and import/export considerations to makes as well. And survival rates for diseases is a very important thing to consider, especially something like cancer which is likely to have an effect on most people (even if not directly). We need to ensure that we make improvements to this and not go backwards, all I am asking is will being part of the EU achieve this or not?

Well what I can see in their manifesto they want to put local communities at the heart of heallth care oppose health tourism and cuts to front line doctors , surgeons ,dentists and nurses but reduce the numbers of managers and executives, so I would say leaving the EU wouldn't have an impact
regards
DR

 

[El Presidente]

Laws imposed on the UK by unelected EU technocrats that prevent the democratically elected UK govt deporting criminals or controlling immigration (by way of examples) are a constant reminder of the impotence of our own Govt, and how things have changed.

But also Home Secretarys who make decisions for political reasons or to appease the leader column of national newspapers (and this applies to both Labour and Tory) need some form of reference, otherwise they can abuse their powers.

 

[Soulman]

True, but you'd hope that any party claiming such facts has done the number crunching in order to justify the claims? And ideally publish those findings in order to continue some semblance of transparency? Otherwise, how can people trust a party if they're not giving them the full facts? (that's not aimed directly at UKIP as I'm aware that can be levelled at any party, more of a general question).

Ok then, perhaps UKIP have done their "number crunching", top business people have pointed out the advantages of leaving the EU, some have argued the other way. The media and two main parties certainly put the stay in on overdrive.
Maybe UKIP support these views.

http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...it-would-be-best-for-Britain-to-leave-EU.html

 

[BadFish]

UKIP believe that
Council tax should be as low as possible

Immigration must be controlled to relieve pressure on our ,health ,education ,housing and welfare services

Green spaces should be protected- they oppose excessive housing developments , wind farms and HS2

Need more police on our streets, cracking down on crimecand anti-social behaviour

Councils should cut highly paid council executives , not front line staff and services

real decision makingshould be given to local communities

Money should be used for local services, not the EU, foreign aid and foreign wars

Government at local, national and european level has become too remote, the political class have forgotyen they work for us, Bureaucrats and
professional politicians have taken over and the people are too often ignored

UKIP will bring back power to the people, decisions will be made locally, common sense policies will make lives easier and government will do what is needed, but no more
regards
DR

Much of this sounds good. If they could run their elections on this stuff rather than sweeping statements and half truths about immigration, scaremongering and the regular gaffes that expose their xenophobic underbelly. I am would probably vote for them. (apart from the wind farms - I like wind farms).

I would be interested to know how the first two points wouldn't work against each other. Surely any savings in services that are saved from cutting immigration would be lost butr cutting funding through council tax (Does council tax pay for Health education, housing or Welfare directly?

 

[BadFish]

Open door immigration is crippling local services in the UK ,right or wrong
regards
DR

Wrong - Lack of funding has a far more significant impact on local services than immigration.

 

[El Presidente]

I do have an issue in relation to UKIP stopping foreign aid. There are thousands of people dying and suffering in Africa at present as a result of Ebola, and as far as UKIP are concerned, they're foreign so let them die.

 

[Soulman]

That is absolutely no use is it. They need to get together and come to a conclusion based on what the parties are suggesting and say "The proposal by this party is the best way forward" as one voice and not argue like children about it. All the time they do this I am inclined to think no one actually knows if being in or out is better and so why go through the hassle of leaving?

Jeez, the bit you highlighted from my post was not UKIP "some have argued the other way"...it's the business people that have opinions that differ.

 

[Soulman]

Wrong - Lack of funding has a far more significant impact on local services than immigration.

When was the last time you visited an English doctors or hospital BF ?

 

[El Presidente]

When was the last time you visited an English doctors or hospital BF ?

Last time I visited my GP practice 4 out of 5 doctors were foreign. Perhaps if the government invested more in UK university medical schools, instead of trying to starve them of funds, introduce ridiculous fees to restrict education and prevent UK universities competing worldwide by having an arbitrary immigration policy in respect of students then this would be less of an issue.

 

[Soulman]

I do have an issue in relation to UKIP stopping foreign aid. There are thousands of people dying and suffering in Africa at present as a result of Ebola, and as far as UKIP are concerned, they're foreign so let them die.

Cut back the wastage on some foreign aid. One example, we give about 280million a YEAR to India, even though a few years back the Indian prime minister stated they did not want it. Next year it will stop. How about the other countries that do not use the money to help the people, use it for weapons etc.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ndia-tells-Britain-We-dont-want-your-aid.html

I'll give you the leftie view as well.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2011/feb/14/government-defends-1bn-aid-india

 

[Soulman]

Last time I visited my GP practice 4 out of 5 doctors were foreign. Perhaps if the government invested more in UK university medical schools, instead of trying to starve them of funds, introduce ridiculous fees to restrict education and prevent UK universities competing worldwide by having an arbitrary immigration policy in respect of students then this would be less of an issue.

I mean't the amount of patients......but then you knew that.

 

[Soulman]

I do have an issue in relation to UKIP stopping foreign aid. There are thousands of people dying and suffering in Africa at present as a result of Ebola, and as far as UKIP are concerned, they're foreign so let them die.

Maybe the aid should be distributed properly.
The government has defended its decision to give £1bn in aid to India, despite the rapidly increasing wealth of the emerging economic giant.
A review of UK aid will maintain aid donations to India of £280m a year until 2015, while withdrawing assistance from countries such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Serbia and Moldova, the international development secretary, Andrew Mitchell, revealed.
The decision is likely to infuriate some Conservative MPs, who believe it is time to halt aid to India, which has economic growth of 8.5% a year, gives aid to Africa, spends £20bn a year on defence and has a £1.25bn space programme.