UK rules out military action in Iraq.

[KZNSeagull]

Obama not so sure now - says no troops on ground but not other "military action".

 

[Stoo82]

as loverly a leader as Saddam was, we probably only accelerated the inevitable. we've seen it time and again, when a dictator leaves his "legacy" leaves, chaos and infighting take his place. if you really want to get into who's fault it is, you go back to 1800's when we carved out random lines across the world, and have to conclude that the best action would be to dispence with the whole notion of nations and let the locals fight amongst themselfs.

unless you have a better suggestion?

Well, with Iraq it was the League of Nations who carved up the de-funcked Ottoman Empire.

 

[Footsoldier]

David Milliband wanted Iraq to join the EU, Could you imagine having an open door policy for Iraq

 

[8ace]

Tony Blair's come out and said "it's not my fault"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27852832

 

[Footsoldier]

Tony Blair's come out and said "it's not my fault"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27852832

Am I missing something because I swear all this Arab spring uprising has started after the Iraq war ?

 

[beorhthelm]

Tony Blair's come out and said "it's not my fault"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27852832

he's got a point though. given the events of the "arab spring" 3 years ago, who is to say the current events wouldnt be taking place? who is to say Saddam wouldnt have suffered a similar fate to Ben Ali, Gadaffi, Mubarak or Assad?

 

[somerset]

Same old same old from Dave in Stag Party Land and Dingo from god knows where,.....Para is correct in that they have slaughtering each other since time began, just because there is wall to wall media coverage, and a more industrial edge to the weaponry used doesn't change that fact.

In simple terms, we are not to blame for every conflict in every former colony of some European power or other, but we do have the power to help those that need it.

Try reading something other than the Guardian to get your views, balance it out a bit, maybe you may then get to the real middle ground of opinion that will be nearer the truth.

 

[Nibble]

Judging by what was being said on the wireless this week we have far from ruled out Military intervention. How wonderful. The same week we remember the tens of thousands who died on D-Day and Cameron starts readying troops for war in Iraq. Some lessons just never get learned do they.

 

[somerset]

Well, with Iraq it was the League of Nations who carved up the de-funcked Ottoman Empire.

.....and of course it was the Ottoman Empire that continuously waged war in a concerted effort to expand its borders in every direction.....

 

[WATFORD zero]

maybe you may then get to the real middle ground of opinion that will be nearer the truth.

I assume that 'nearer the truth' could equally be interpreted as 'nearer your opinion'

 

[somerset]

I assume that 'nearer the truth' could equally be interpreted as 'nearer your opinion'

No, just a balanced one.............it should be a very simple exercise, even for some of the one eyed opinionated Herberts on here,....

 

[Footsoldier]

he's got a point though. given the events of the "arab spring" 3 years ago, who is to say the current events wouldnt be taking place? who is to say Saddam wouldnt have suffered a similar fate to Ben Ali, Gadaffi, Mubarak or Assad?

Rubbish. Gaddafi fell because of the west interference like enforcing a no fly zone and arming the rebels. Blair says these were dictators but so was he and Bush.

 

[Soulman]

Same old same old from Dave in Stag Party Land and Dingo from god knows where,.....Para is correct in that they have slaughtering each other since time began, just because there is wall to wall media coverage, and a more industrial edge to the weaponry used doesn't change that fact.

In simple terms, we are not to blame for every conflict in every former colony of some European power or other, but we do have the power to help those that need it.

Try reading something other than the Guardian to get your views, balance it out a bit, maybe you may then get to the real middle ground of opinion that will be nearer the truth.

Just take a look at the countries that are 90% + Muslim, they are always killing each other, can we be blamed for the killings in Yemen, Nigeria, Somalia, Libya, Syria etc.
The same killings and in wars will start again in Afghanistan when the troops pull out. These people do not want peace, in fact they are loathe to drag their beliefs into the 21st century. Perhaps best if we keep out of it, damned if we do, damned if we don't.

 

[Nibble]

Rubbish. Gaddafi fell because of the west interference like enforcing a no fly zone and arming the rebels. Blair says these were dictators but so was he and Bush.

I urge you to watch the Storyville documentary on Gaddafi and tell me you'd be happy to have him ruling over your daughters, wives and mothers. Having said that the uK cannot afford to be too self righteous with the likes of Blair etc and we were in bed with him for years but still. Personally I'd keep up 6 months of sustained carpet bombing and wipe their DNA off the face of the earth and start again but it's not really feasible.

 

[beorhthelm]

Rubbish. Gaddafi fell because of the west interference like enforcing a no fly zone and arming the rebels. Blair says these were dictators but so was he and Bush.

lets try it this way: did Gaddafi fall because of events that occured 7 or 8 years previously, or due to event that happend at the time of an uprising? its quite possible that in 2011 Iraq went the same way as those other Arabic nations and turned on Saddam, and maybe he would be ousted, maybe he'd cling on in civil war for years.

maybe absolutly nothing would have happend and he'd be peacfully ruling Iraq today. given the history with the Kurds and shia/sunni split in the country, this doesnt seem entirely likly though.

 

[Footsoldier]

I urge you to watch the Storyville documentary on Gaddafi and tell me you'd be happy to have him ruling over your daughters, wives and mothers. Having said that the uK cannot afford to be too self righteous with the likes of Blair etc and we were in bed with him for years but still. Personally I'd keep up 6 months of sustained carpet bombing and wipe their DNA off the face of the earth and start again but it's not really feasible.

I had Tony Blair rule for 12 years and all I've had and seen is war after war and blood and murder and he alone has made the world and our country a far worse place to live in than before he gained power. 7/7 London bombings is down to Blair, all the suicide attempts in this country are down to Blair. Blair was a dictator and was trying to impose his ideology on the Muslim world and it has back fired on a massive scale.

I'd like to add that it's ok for Blair to trot around the world feeling safe as he has ex SAS troopers watching his back at TAX PAYERS expense while the rest of us tax payers have to watch our own backs worrying if we are next to be beheaded or blown up. Politicians should live in the real world the ****ing *****.

 

[symyjym]

.....and of course it was the Ottoman Empire that continuously waged war in a concerted effort to expand its borders in every direction.....

No different from any other Empires like the Mongol, Egyption, Greek, Roman, Persian, Byzantine, Han Dynasty, Russian and not forgetting the French, Spanish, British and israeli ones.
These are but a few.

 

[symyjym]

Gaddafi was always immensely popular in Libya until the very end - this is a guy who annually paraded in an open top jeep in a country full of guns. He was immensely popular not just because he was a revolutionary, but also because of everything he achieved there - from ending water shortages, to increasing average wages per capita up to $11k, to the amazing advancements the country was making with education and healthcare.

His downfall was his delusions of grandeur and opposing the West. He was a flawed genius, he had big plans for Africa that involved sticking their middle fingers up to the West - for that reason, he had to go.

Agree mostly, but he didn't really oppose the West that much and he always compromised with us.

When we needed to use him he always assisted even when we wrongly blamed him for Lockerbie. Many of the Arab leaders sent their children and families to the UK to get educated and if anything that generation would have paved the way for westernisation.

But yes the infrustructure in Libya was a modern forward thinking one, yet Blair was more interested in arms deals with him for financial gain.

 

[somerset]

No different from any other Empires like the Mongol, Egyption, Greek, Roman, Persian, Byzantine, Han Dynasty, Russian and not forgetting the French, Spanish, British and israeli ones.
These are but a few.

Indeed, my point.....

 

[daveinprague]

Same old same old from Dave in Stag Party Land and Dingo from god knows where,.....Para is correct in that they have slaughtering each other since time began, just because there is wall to wall media coverage, and a more industrial edge to the weaponry used doesn't change that fact.

In simple terms, we are not to blame for every conflict in every former colony of some European power or other, but we do have the power to help those that need it.

Try reading something other than the Guardian to get your views, balance it out a bit, maybe you may then get to the real middle ground of opinion that will be nearer the truth.

Utter bollocks....

People have been 'slaughtering' each other, since time began, all over the planet, to decide that it only happens in the middle east is fairly ****ing ridiculous.
Im sure it will make you feel better believing that the Wests interests in the middle east is 'humanitarian' and has nothing to do with dollars.

I dont read the Guardian.