UK rules out military action in Iraq.

[spring hall convert]

The UK had the opportunity to vote out Blair even after he took us to war and they didn't.

This being a key point in the particular debate you are having.

 

[spring hall convert]

there is NO EVIDENCE for any of those allegations. Well, none that has stood up to any scrutiny.

A bit like the dossier then.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's very convenient to look through the old retroscope and see how things were manipulated or over egged by (presumably) Alastair Campbell and TB but there is NO EVIDENCE for any of those allegations. Well, none that has stood up to any scrutiny.

There is a lot of nonsense put about on this. All I'm saying is show us some PROOF that these things were done by Blair and co. and I'll believe it. You'llnot be able to though because, if any existed, Blair would be up before The Hague..he isn't. Chillicot will vindicate him again I imagine.

The truth will out one day. Hopefully in B.Liar's lifetime so that the evidence can be presented in The Hague.

 

[Leighgull]

Who else then? I know it's nt a popular view among all of the protestors about the deposition of Saddam but, as was pointed out, Blair won another General election after Iraq so...well, not everyone thinks he's a war criminal clearly.

He took us into a war and it turned out that key evidence for doing so was flawed. He clearly believed it was the right thing to do and stuck his neck out for Bush which, in retrospect was a mistake.. There was simply NO reason for him to lie to get us in to that conflict.

 

[Hotchilidog]

There was simply NO reason for him to lie to get us in to that conflict.

Didn't stop him though did it? He should be in the Hague alongside Bush but sadly we don't hold ourselves to the same standard we demand of others.

This was a war of CHOICE, and it was entered into on the basis of a LIE without a care for what mayhem would follow. Thousands are dead, millions displaced, and the world is a more unstable place, an utterly indefensible war pursued by people who will never feel the effect of what they have done.

 

[martyn20]

Who else then? I know it's nt a popular view among all of the protestors about the deposition of Saddam but, as was pointed out, Blair won another General election after Iraq so...well, not everyone thinks he's a war criminal clearly.

He took us into a war and it turned out that key evidence for doing so was flawed. He clearly believed it was the right thing to do and stuck his neck out for Bush which, in retrospect was a mistake.. There was simply NO reason for him to lie to get us in to that conflict.

The lie was only just becoming clear during that election, too late to stop him but soon after it was clear it was all over and he had to go. The fact he is still lying now makes it more and more likely he knew the truth from the beginning, he wanted regime change (totally illegal) and was willing to lie about WMD to get the support he needed.
It's a sickening misuse of power, I doubt he will ever make it to the Hague but I think there is a strong case to bring him up on charges in this country.

 

[symyjym]

Who else then? I know it's nt a popular view among all of the protestors about the deposition of Saddam but, as was pointed out, Blair won another General election after Iraq so...well, not everyone thinks he's a war criminal clearly.

He took us into a war and it turned out that key evidence for doing so was flawed. He clearly believed it was the right thing to do and stuck his neck out for Bush which, in retrospect was a mistake.. There was simply NO reason for him to lie to get us in to that conflict.

That's a simplistic view of it, they had 36% of the vote on a low 61% turnout, the conservative party was weak and Blair got in because of die hard Labour voters, as I am sure you are. Absolutely nothing to do with 100% of the country enjoying his fairground ride. Even if he did get voted out we would have still been fighting his war so at the same time there was no real will from the Tories to make the effort to jump into the mess he had made for us. The attitude was "his problem let him have it."

The only people in his band of merry men that had great understanding of the mistakes that were being made were Robin Cook and Clare Short. These two people in that Labour government are the only ones I hold in respectful regard.

 

[dingodan]

Couldn't agree more. Problem is, the monsters are loose across the middle east. We set them free. Now we have to put them back in their box.

wow.

 

[Leighgull]

The lie was only just becoming clear during that election, too late to stop him but soon after it was clear it was all over and he had to go. The fact he is still lying now makes it more and more likely he knew the truth from the beginning, he wanted regime change (totally illegal) and was willing to lie about WMD to get the support he needed.
It's a sickening misuse of power, I doubt he will ever make it to the Hague but I think there is a strong case to bring him up on charges in this country.

Again. What lies did he tell? Show me a lie told by Blair. I don't mean something that he believed to be true but turned out to be false later I mean something he KNEW to be a lie but that he told the British people anyway.

Blair is. Conviction politician. He took Clinton into Yugoslavia to stop Milosovic, he saved THOUSANDS of Muslims there, he believed 100% that Saddam was hiding WMD.

He did what he thought was right as far as I can see. All of you revisionists just don't understand that your claims about lies demand proof or you just sound stupid.

I wish Blair was still PM.

 

[martyn20]

Again. What lies did he tell? Show me a lie told by Blair. I don't mean something that he believed to be true but turned out to be false later I mean something he KNEW to be a lie but that he told the British people anyway.

Blair is. Conviction politician. He took Clinton into Yugoslavia to stop Milosovic, he saved THOUSANDS of Muslims there, he believed 100% that Saddam was hiding WMD.

He did what he thought was right as far as I can see. All of you revisionists just don't understand that your claims about lies demand proof or you just sound stupid.

I wish Blair was still PM.

The UK intelligence was not strong enough so it was changed, UK specialists told him there were no WMD's well before any vote on war but he rejected it and refused to accept their findings (I am not in the camp that says those specialists were actually silenced)
Blair has always used the line about regime change, defeating and removing Saddam was the RIGHT and MORAL thing to do but that was not enough to convince people to go to war so he went along with the WMD lie.
I am really getting sick of people saying the WMD's not being found was something we discovered LATER so it's ok that they were just WRONG....that's not the case every specialist said they were not there, Iraq, it's allies and even it's enemies said they were not there, the US and UK government line that they were definitely there was a LIE.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's a sickening misuse of power, I doubt he will ever make it to the Hague but I think there is a strong case to bring him up on charges in this country.

Just need to step up the campaign for people to make a citizens arrest every time he appears in public.

 

[User removed 4]

Yes, I did make a mistake Bushy...you ok with that?
That doesnt make you less of a stupid ****, or bottle job really, does it

Whoever is the majority, the west should stay out of it.

Got anymore ''great' jokes to add to the thread, or was that it?

I'm fine with it , it just highlights what a know nothing plank you really are, for someone who professes to know something about this situation it was laughable, as for the bottle job comment , what do you mean ?? I'd be careful how you answer that , because I'm sure you're referring to your offer to meet me on St Georges day , which you eventually insisted was for "talks" , as I said be careful how you answer it because I have a link to the thread at hand, and even you wouldn'thave the front to edit your posts this far down tthe line.

 

[martyn20]

Just need to step up the campaign for people to make a citizens arrest every time he appears in public.

What we need is a proper police investigation, an arrest by a member of the public will never stand. This joke of an inquiry currently in place will find nothing, you need a proper investigation

 

[symyjym]

Again. What lies did he tell? Show me a lie told by Blair. I don't mean something that he believed to be true but turned out to be false later I mean something he KNEW to be a lie but that he told the British people anyway.

Blair is. Conviction politician. He took Clinton into Yugoslavia to stop Milosovic, he saved THOUSANDS of Muslims there, he believed 100% that Saddam was hiding WMD.

He did what he thought was right as far as I can see. All of you revisionists just don't understand that your claims about lies demand proof or you just sound stupid.

I wish Blair was still PM.

So you believed that Hans Blix was bullshitting Blair then?

When the UN provides a report on years of work in Iraq including 700 site inspections, and then Blair and Bush ignore it, that in itself is a devastating blow to the United Nations and world peace.

They basically told the UN to go f*** itself.

The difference between Yugoslavia/Serbia and Iraq is that one was backed by the UN.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

What we need is a proper police investigation, an arrest by a member of the public will never stand. This joke of an inquiry currently in place will find nothing, you need a proper investigation

B.Liar already gets arrested by members of the public on a regular basis. Nothing ever comes of it, but its still a legal and moral thing to do. Unlike what he did when he invaded Iraq.

 

[Leighgull]

The UK intelligence was not strong enough so it was changed, UK specialists told him there were no WMD's well before any vote on war but he rejected it and refused to accept their findings (I am not in the camp that says those specialists were actually silenced)
Blair has always used the line about regime change, defeating and removing Saddam was the RIGHT and MORAL thing to do but that was not enough to convince people to go to war so he went along with the WMD lie.
I am really getting sick of people saying the WMD's not being found was something we discovered LATER so it's ok that they were just WRONG....that's not the case every specialist said they were not there, Iraq, it's allies and even it's enemies said they were not there, the US and UK government line that they were definitely there was a LIE.

No, no it wasn't. It was a false belief. Two different things.

The UN inspectors were adamant that there were no WMD and passed that information on via the media. Blair and Bush were determined to oust Saddam and chose to listen to their own intelligence services for a steer rather than the UN (the UN is full of appeasers anyway)

It would have been very simple for the CIA to have "found" a load of WMD once we were in charge...the fact they didn't shows that there was no organised conspiracy and that they fully expected a cache to be uncovered once the regime fell.

Blair didn't lie to get us in. He just chose to believe something that suited his ambition. It was a tour de force how Blair got his way over Iraq. Courage in his convictions. Proper leader.

 

[symyjym]

No, no it wasn't. It was a false belief. Two different things.

The UN inspectors were adamant that there were no WMD and passed that information on via the media. Blair and Bush were determined to oust Saddam and chose to listen to their own intelligence services for a steer rather than the UN (the UN is full of appeasers anyway)

It would have been very simple for the CIA to have "found" a load of WMD once we were in charge...the fact they didn't shows that there was no organised conspiracy and that they fully expected a cache to be uncovered once the regime fell.

Blair didn't lie to get us in. He just chose to believe something that suited his ambition. It was a tour de force how Blair got his way over Iraq. Courage in his convictions. Proper leader.

So at least you admit he lied to himself

 

[Leighgull]

So at least you admit he lied to himself

No. He just believed things that suited his view. Something that is going on throughout this thread.

 

[martyn20]

No, no it wasn't. It was a false belief. Two different things.

The UN inspectors were adamant that there were no WMD and passed that information on via the media. Blair and Bush were determined to oust Saddam and chose to listen to their own intelligence services for a steer rather than the UN (the UN is full of appeasers anyway)

It would have been very simple for the CIA to have "found" a load of WMD once we were in charge...the fact they didn't shows that there was no organised conspiracy and that they fully expected a cache to be uncovered once the regime fell.

Blair didn't lie to get us in. He just chose to believe something that suited his ambition. It was a tour de force how Blair got his way over Iraq. Courage in his convictions. Proper leader.

You are delusional, the US and the UK left the searches and the investigations into the UN teams, they did not have their own teams touring Iraq and checking areas, there was only evidence that Iraq had no WMD's, show me the reports of non UN inspection teams that found evidence of the WMD's Bush and Blair used to justify war.

 

[symyjym]

No. He just believed things that suited his view. Something that is going on throughout this thread.

Not just on this thread, Blair misleading the country with sexed up intelligence was a national topic which has been highlighted again with recent events. I can assure you it is not a NSC fabrication.

Blair can hide behind saying he believed there was wmd for the rest of his life which I am sure he will. But if that really was his belief, it was because he was lied to, and fooled by Bush.

At best his excuse is that he was manipulated by Bush's lies, and on that basis whether he lied or truly believed, we invaded Iraq on the basis of a lie and under false pretences.

He was weak and fell for it hook line and sinker and he was party to it with his willful neglect of his duty to the world and incompetence.