UK net migration hits record high

[Bold Seagull]

The Leftist media is manipulating everything.

Well someone is going to have to explain this one to me!?

The UK's biggest selling tabloids are the Mail and the Sun - leftist
The UK's biggest selling broad sheets are the Telegraph and The Times - leftist
The UK's biggest channel provider outside the BBC is SKY - leftist

Unless you're suggesting, the Mirror, BBC and Guardian are manipulating everything!

 

[BadFish]

Well someone is going to have to explain this one to me!?

The UK's biggest selling tabloids are the Mail and the Sun - leftist
The UK's biggest selling board sheets are the Telegraph and The Times - leftist
The UK's biggest channel provider outside the BBC is SKY - leftist

If that lot look left then i think one may be too far right

 

[BigGully]

May be I should give people more credit, but I honestly feel some who where happy to support the Welcome Refugees campaign didn't realise the extent of the numbers getting in to Europe in the first place. Did some imagine it as a few people thousand people stuck trying to get past the Hungarian border. Merkel has now opened the door and invited millions of people to the EU, it will never stop now. Already not shown by our own media there are thousands of people protesting against the influx all over Europe now.

Perhaps, but that is my point too, they seemed unable to firstly see the inequity of just accepting a 'few thousand' in their minds eye that made the crossings and how a Welcome Refugee campaign bolstered by main cheerleader Merkel would initiate an escalation of those wishing to come and rightly expect the invitation to be honoured.

It was always a matter of scale, 10 million Syrians are displaced, it would only take a small percentage to make the journey for that number to become significant and unsustainable.

 

[BadFish]

Perhaps, but that is my point too, they seemed unable to firstly see the inequity of just accepting a 'few thousand' in their minds eye that made the crossings and how a Welcome Refugee campaign bolstered by main cheerleader Merkel would initiate an escalation of those wishing to come and rightly expect the invitation to be honoured.

It was always a matter of scale, 10 million Syrians are displaced, it would only take a small percentage to make the journey for that number to become significant and unsustainable.

Trouble is that leaves the question: what about the rest of them?

 

[BigGully]

Trouble is that leaves the question: what about the rest of them?

But that has always been the position, it hasnt just happened, when you and others were saying just let them in, how were Europe ever going to absorb such numbers, how could you not envisage such unsustainable numbers out of a displaces 10 million Syrians and why just Syrians and how could you possibly differentiate between those with the contacts and financial clout to board a boat and those millions unable to do so, you very soon become hypocrites.

 

[BadFish]

But that has always been the position, it hasnt just happened, when you and others were saying just let them in, how were Europe ever going to absorb such numbers, how could you not envisage such unsustainable numbers out of a displaces 10 million Syrians and why just Syrians and how could you possibly differentiate between those with the contacts and financial clout to board a boat and those millions unable to do so, you very soon become hypocrites.

i haven't ever said just let them in.

The numbers have been huge for ages, this latest wave has just got lots of publicity because they have managed to reach Europe en masse. Part of the problem with the Syrian problem is that for years Syria were taking huge numbers of refugees.

I don't differentiate between anyone. i would like a system in place that helps all of them.

The fact is that Europe now has the problem on its door step rather than out of sight and out of mind. This is why people are acting on this current wave. Quite how this makes me a hypocrite i don't know.

You didn't answer the question about the rest of them?

 

[Triggaaar]

What Bush did and what Blair facilitated was worse than Osama Bin Laden.

Really? At best, they thought Saddam had WMDs and wanted to make the region safe, at worst they wanted to topple a leader they didn't like and impose their own ideals of a democracy on Iraq. I've no idea what was in their minds, but surely it's not as bad as just killing as many non believing citizens as possible?

Let’s not forget the Shock & Awe marketing on the first night of bombing Bagdad, if that is not terrorising a population I don't know what is? What they did was pure evil.

https://youtu.be/3aEvzuA4f0c

I'm not sure what we're supposed to make of that. Presumably they're targeting military installations, and much of what we hear is defensive fire.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

But that has always been the position, it hasnt just happened, when you and others were saying just let them in, how were Europe ever going to absorb such numbers, how could you not envisage such unsustainable numbers out of a displaces 10 million Syrians and why just Syrians and how could you possibly differentiate between those with the contacts and financial clout to board a boat and those millions unable to do so, you very soon become hypocrites.

Your right it hasn't just happened. It's been a problem ever since the boats started landing on Lampadusa that was when it was first reported in 2011, it was probably going for a few years before that. We where even talking about this becoming an issue back then. Annoyingly for all the billions of Euros the EU inherits they have just sat on this problem for years, they left it to Italy and later Greece to sort out, now it is out of control the EU wants to impose quotas on countries. It's a joke.

 

[beorhthelm]

I don't differentiate between anyone. i would like a system in place that helps all of them.

well there is: the international community under UN direction and a bunch of others establish refugee camps. from there some apply to nations to be admitted either as refugees or asylum seekers. Germany and a handful of politicians have decided they want to change that, ignoring a bunch of laws and regulations in their own nations and EU, to simply admit anyone to EU, let them find their way to a country of choice and then apply for asylum/residency there. they fudged up a system that was functional (not great if you're in a camp probably) and left with dysfunctional chaos.

 

[BigGully]

i haven't ever said just let them in.

The numbers have been huge for ages, this latest wave has just got lots of publicity because they have managed to reach Europe en masse. Part of the problem with the Syrian problem is that for years Syria were taking huge numbers of refugees.

I don't differentiate between anyone. i would like a system in place that helps all of them.

The fact is that Europe now has the problem on its door step rather than out of sight and out of mind. This is why people are acting on this current wave. Quite how this makes me a hypocrite i don't know.

You didn't answer the question about the rest of them?

The answer is they need help on the ground, just accepting an undetermined number is political posturing at its very worst, Europe acted passively and without resolve, it never grasped the need to disincentivise those coming here, whilst Merkels actions has only exacerbated the problem.

We continue to help strategically and financially but just offering placement within Europe to people with very little known credentials and indeterminate need is not the answer.

 

[Soulman]

Aaaaah ok, cannot seem to remember you saying this in earlier posts, it was a more fill yer boots strategy from what I recall, under the heading of 'compassion'.

It seems there is a backtrack by many, I find it astounding how you couldn't even begin to to foresee the potential problems for the recipient countries and the impact on those countries people.

Of course by 'measured' you mean restriction on passage to Europe, politically its too late already the impact of this wave of migration will be destabilising, security compromised and I fear some real problems around the edges of the more extreme parties throughout Europe.

Exactly, quite revealing if you look at the earlier posts, now it seems the views have shifted more in line with a sensible solution suggested by others

 

[BadFish]

well there is: the international community under UN direction and a bunch of others establish refugee camps. from there some apply to nations to be admitted either as refugees or asylum seekers. Germany and a handful of politicians have decided they want to change that, ignoring a bunch of laws and regulations in their own nations and EU, to simply admit anyone to EU, let them find their way to a country of choice and then apply for asylum/residency there. they fudged up a system that was functional (not great if you're in a camp probably) and left with dysfunctional chaos.

But the system isn't functional and its not functional because countries don't take enough people out of the camps. The choice is go to a camp and wait years and years (the average is currently around 17 years) to find refuge or chance your arm with the people smugglers. One of the reasons that their are so many people prepared to risk their lives to try and get to Europe and Australia is that the refugee camps and the quotas taken from them are woefully inadequate for the number of refugees out there. The situation has been coming for a long time because most western countries have buried their heads in the sand about the size and scale of the problem.

 

[Hastings gull]

i haven't ever said just let them in.

The numbers have been huge for ages, this latest wave has just got lots of publicity because they have managed to reach Europe en masse. Part of the problem with the Syrian problem is that for years Syria were taking huge numbers of refugees.

I don't differentiate between anyone. i would like a system in place that helps all of them.

The fact is that Europe now has the problem on its door step rather than out of sight and out of mind. This is why people are acting on this current wave. Quite how this makes me a hypocrite i don't know.

You didn't answer the question about the rest of them?

You may never have said it using this sentence, but you have quite clearly given the impression that you would let them all in, when you wrote that they should be spread around Europe. In any case, the second quote clearly implies this.
People are not reacting only as a result of the current crisis as such - the fear of excessive immigration has been around for years and the situation in Calais is hardly a new phenomenon, but the sheer numbers, on top of what we already have, now have exacerbated the worry.

 

[BadFish]

The answer is they need help on the ground, just accepting an undetermined number is political posturing at its very worst, Europe acted passively and without resolve, it never grasped the need to disincentivise those coming here, whilst Merkels actions has only exacerbated the problem.

We continue to help strategically and financially but just offering placement within Europe to people with very little known credentials and indeterminate need is not the answer.

No-one is suggesting 'just' offering placement. The fact is Europe has a crisis on its door step that it has to deal with. You may 'continue to help 'strategically*' and financially but that help will continue to be too little and the refguees will continue to arrive.

**Sounds like a political buzzword to me, what does this actually mean?

I think we have to be careful with the whole disincentive thing. Our government has gone down that road and we are currently holding innocent people for undetermined lengths of time in prison camps where abuse, rape and mental illness is rife (to the point that it is now illegal for visitors to report on what they witness). All in the name of providing a worse experience than the one they are running from so they are deterred from coming. Sad thing it it hasn't actually worked and they are still coming and the government have to tow them back to Indonesia.

 

[BadFish]

You may never have said it using this sentence, but you have quite clearly given the impression that you would let them all in, when you wrote that they should be spread around Europe. In any case, the second quote clearly implies this.

Are you seriously suggesting that you cannot see a difference between a system that helps them all and Just let them in?

this explains why you think I have given such an impression.

 

[BigGully]

No-one is suggesting 'just' offering placement. The fact is Europe has a crisis on its door step that it has to deal with. You may 'continue to help 'strategically*' and financially but that help will continue to be too little and the refguees will continue to arrive.

Sounds like a political buzzword to me, what does this actually mean?

They will continue to arrive because the message from Europe is ambiguous and has been for years, I am guessing the rhetoric will firm up in the coming weeks and months, the refugees will sense this prompting another surge wishing to come here.

The inadequacies of the European stance will shift the squalor and despair from the refugee camps bordering Syria to the soon to be reinforced borders of Europe, every European country will have their own Calais times 100 to contend with, it will inevitably cause resentment from the local communities who will find their lives blighted by desperate migrants, Merkels recent welcome to Germany will of course be rescinded leaving personal wreckage worse than before the crisis even started.

Political buzzword ??

In this instance means for shed loads of our money going to try and keep the refugee camps as liveable as possible to try and avoid them feeling so desperate to want to come to Europe.

 

[Hastings gull]

Are you seriously suggesting that you cannot see a difference between a system that helps them all and Just let them in?

this explains why you think I have given such an impression.

I certainly can see a theoretical difference - I just had not appreciated that you could be so vague. So how would you help someone in a boat just off Italy, if it did not involve letting them in?

 

[BadFish]

They will continue to arrive because the message from Europe is ambiguous and has been for years, I am guessing the rhetoric will firm up in the coming weeks and months, the refugees will sense this prompting another surge wishing to come here.

The inadequacies of the European stance will shift the squalor and despair from the refugee camps bordering Syria to the soon to be reinforced borders of Europe, every European country will have their own Calais times 100 to contend with, it will inevitably cause resentment from the local communities who will find their lives blighted by desperate migrants, Merkels recent welcome to Germany will of course be rescinded leaving personal wreckage worse than before the crisis even started.

Political buzzword ??

In this instance means for shed loads of our money going to try and keep the refugee camps as liveable as possible to try and avoid them feeling so desperate to want to come to Europe.

Am i to paraphrase that you will be content as long as the problem stays away from the borders of Europe?

 

[BadFish]

I certainly can see a theoretical difference - I just had not appreciated that you could be so vague. So how would you help someone in a boat just off Italy, if it did not involve letting them in?

You missed the word 'just'

 

[beorhthelm]

But the system isn't functional and its not functional because countries don't take enough people out of the camps.

you're not quite understanding, and not alone in this, that there is not supposed to be wholesale resettlement of the refugees. how can this ever be viable? as pointed out there are millions displaced, in Syria and many others. do you expect countries to simply accept all refugees, just fly them in to all other nations across the globe, as events demand? presumably then ships them back once the situation changes... except all those who don't want to. maybe you do expect this, however no one else does realistically and this isnt going to change while the west have democracies with populations that ultimately wish to serve their own interests. if you don't like that, better deal with it, because its not going to change, no amount of utopian ideals is going to make it popular to import hundreds of thousands, even millions from abroad to be housed, educated, cared for etc by countries that cant even do that for their own native populations.