UK net migration hits record high

[cunning fergus]

could it be that not enough young people want to be nurses ...?

The evidence would indicate more young people than ever want to be nurses........

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...o-reduce-reliance-on-foreigners-10006538.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs...-thirds-of-local-applicants-are-rejected.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/547556/80-000-students-told-they-can-t-be-nurses

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...espite-four-five-new-NHS-workers-foreign.html

There are generally 20k training places, I would argue that it's just cheaper for the NHS to poach a trained nurse from somewhere like India than train a Brit.

No doubt someone somewhere in the private sector is making money from this trade and in the meantime the poor countries will just have to cope with essential resources being stripped out by the NHS.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Protests in Italy, doesn't surprise me.

 

[cunning fergus]

Nail on head. Lived with a trainee nurse and the amount of people on her course who dropped out after the first year was crazy, due to the crazy hours and poor treatment. Quite frankly whilst many people who train to be nurses genuinely want to do it to help people when the reality kicks in on how hard they have to work for such little monetary reward many turn away - and who can blame them to be honest.

I don't doubt your anecdote, I will give you one of my own.

I know of a nurse who retired from the NHS as soon as she was eligible and was re-hired within the month so she can add her pay to her retirement income.

I know of a copper who has done the same, and both indicated to me that it is not an exceptional practice in the NHS or other arms of the civil service..........

The conditions may well be challenging for some but the rewards if you know what you are doing are not in any measure paltry.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why do you say that? 16k upwards whilst training, with a minimum of 23k once qualified, sounds reasonable on the face of it. If you don't like the prospect of piss, sh1t and blood, don't choose nursing for God's sake.

That's below the national average for what I consider a well above average job with all manner of shift patterns. They should be paid more, and with you in mind, respected more.

I'll ignore your last sentence.

 

[daveinprague]

Protests in Italy, doesn't surprise me.

Far-right marches over immigration never surprise me.

 

[BigGully]

That's below the national average for what I consider a well above average job with all manner of shift patterns. They should be paid more, and with you in mind, respected more.

I'll ignore your last sentence.

How much would you like them to be paid, you tend to make general comments on most things political but without ever offering any substantive alternative.

 

[daveinprague]

A thumbs down for not being surprised by a far-right anti immigration march.
Should I have been 'surprised' instead? haha

 

[Bold Seagull]

That's below the national average for what I consider a well above average job with all manner of shift patterns. They should be paid more, and with you in mind, respected more.

I'll ignore your last sentence.

How much more Tub, you and your flippant remarks about nurses being paid and valued more for the immeasurably tough and often stressful but ultimately fantastic job they do? I'd like a full salary and contract package breakdown please by lunchtime to include: pay grades and experience, pension contributions, likely retirement age (because clearly thats when the bonuses really start rolling in, don't worry all your 20 year olds, in 30 years or so you can play the retirement gambit!!), all cross referenced with shift patterns, overtime, and other potential bonuses like a 5 year pay freeze...I mean other bonuses you can think of.

If you could just try to make posts with supporting detail and evidence like everyone else does, it would help. Just saying more is a bit Dickens-esque....

 

[Deleted member 22389]

A thumbs down for not being surprised by a far-right anti immigration march.
Should I have been 'surprised' instead? haha

I don't know if you have any family in Italy like myself but the situation is bad down there.

 

[carlzeiss]

Far-right marches over immigration never surprise me.

Some immigrants not happy either in Italy :-

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[daveinprague]

I don't know if you have any family in Italy like myself but the situation is bad down there.

Whether I have or not, I still wont be surprised by a far-right march over immigration. Who would?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How much would you like them to be paid, you tend to make general comments on most things political but without ever offering any substantive alternative.

True, but I don't need to know how to fix my car to know the engine doesn't work. I'd need a lot of information to make a specific and exact statement about how much they should get. But, for now and as a start it should certainly be above the national average.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How much more Tub, you and your flippant remarks about nurses being paid and valued more for the immeasurably tough and often stressful but ultimately fantastic job they do? I'd like a full salary and contract package breakdown please by lunchtime to include: pay grades and experience, pension contributions, likely retirement age (because clearly thats when the bonuses really start rolling in, don't worry all your 20 year olds, in 30 years or so you can play the retirement gambit!!), all cross referenced with shift patterns, overtime, and other potential bonuses like a 5 year pay freeze...I mean other bonuses you can think of.

If you could just try to make posts with supporting detail and evidence like everyone else does, it would help. Just saying more is a bit Dickens-esque....

See above.

 

[BigGully]

True, but I don't need to know how to fix my car to know the engine doesn't work. I'd need a lot of information to make a specific and exact statement about how much they should get. But, for now and as a start it should certainly be above the national average.

I agree that we cannot know what their true worth is and I have a position on all careers that have the term vocation associated with them, as vocation tends to be linked to primarily historic female careers that represents overworked and underpaid jobs, I very rarely see men feeling their careers is a vocation we are not that silly, show us the money !!!

Just saying more money, more immigrants, more everything isnt really the answer.

 

[Soulman]

Far-right marches over immigration never surprise me.

Why when some people do not agree with what is happening in their country does it have to be far right

 

[carlzeiss]

Why when some people do not agree with what is happening in their country does it have to be far right

I am afraid if you don't agree with open borders to all immigrants and accept their customs such as marrying your cousin , FGM , honor killings etc then you are a far right DM reading Nazi bigot .

 

[Withdean11]

That certainly seems to be the case in DIP's mind.

 

[Buzzer]

How much more Tub, you and your flippant remarks about nurses being paid and valued more for the immeasurably tough and often stressful but ultimately fantastic job they do? I'd like a full salary and contract package breakdown please by lunchtime to include: pay grades and experience, pension contributions, likely retirement age (because clearly thats when the bonuses really start rolling in, don't worry all your 20 year olds, in 30 years or so you can play the retirement gambit!!), all cross referenced with shift patterns, overtime, and other potential bonuses like a 5 year pay freeze...I mean other bonuses you can think of.

If you could just try to make posts with supporting detail and evidence like everyone else does, it would help. Just saying more is a bit Dickens-esque....

And it looks like you've lifted your material straight from any Mark Steel sketch. His preferred way of shutting down debate is by arguing from ridiculous and somewhat irrelevant extremities too.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree that we cannot know what their true worth is and I have a position on all careers that have the term vocation associated with them, as vocation tends to be linked to primarily historic female careers that represents overworked and underpaid jobs, I very rarely see men feeling their careers is a vocation we are not that silly, show us the money !!!

Just saying more money, more immigrants, more everything isnt really the answer.

In my mind vocation is a very dated term. And what does it really mean? A calling? A worthy job? Or just plain simple enjoyment of your job? To me it's nonsense. I'm not really addressing your post, more musing to myself here

 

[daveinprague]

[MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION], [MENTION=13923]carlzeiss[/MENTION], [MENTION=6026]Withdean11[/MENTION]
When a news report about a demonstration in Italy carries the banner

'Rally over migrant influx attracts thousands of far-right protestors'

er yeah, Ill tend to suspect it was a far-right march.

Organised by Lega Nord. .. haha
I enjoyed your knee jerk reactions. Thanks!!