UK net migration hits record high

[BadFish]

How about your country take the 38 million in, making your population about 54 million, still about 9 million shy of the UK population, in a country 30 times the size of ours....sorted.

So no real answer then?

 

[Soulman]

So no real answer then?

I believe i put up my answers in my posts on the previous page (50)...........the one you are responding to can be added if you like

 

[BadFish]

I believe i put up my answers in my posts on the previous page (50)...........the one you are responding to can be added if you like

That's okay I was actually asking HG

 

[Hastings gull]

There was no implication in my post. I was just pointing out that your suggesting that the number of refugees (that Bobby Smith was referring to) in the UK was in the millions was incorrect. Way off the mark in fact.



117,161 refugees and 26,383 pending asylum cases (is this what you mean by the queue?)

I think we are playing with words here. The list of refugees would then go on top of the millions of immigrants who are already here. Surely you must have realised that? Why do you always seem to get the wrong end of the stick?

 

[BadFish]

I think we are playing with words here. The list of refugees would then go on top of the millions of immigrants who are already here. Surely you must have realised that? Why do you always seem to get the wrong end of the stick?

We were talking about refugees, I didn't see any reason why you would bring other types of immigrants into it as they are not relevant to the pint being made.

I don't get the wrong end of the stick I just don't agree with the way you blur the lines between different types of immigrants to suit your agenda.

 

[Hastings gull]

Let me get this straight, first you wrote this...



... advocating aid programme in Syria and other countries refugees come from, and a military closing off of Europe, but now you say that...



... you doubt that any such programme would work. So what IS your solution to the problem?



You don't really expect me to give you the exact number? Extended studies would have to be conducted to establish the number of people Europe would be able to accept, but surely we are nowhere near that number yet. The EU is composed of relatively rich countries, and we can share this wealth with people in need. Why should we? Simply because we CAN, and perhaps also because there is a tiny grain of truth in the words of Frantz Fanon who said: "From all these continents, under whose eyes Europe today raises up her tower of opulence, there has flowed out for centuries toward that same Europe diamonds and oil, silk and cotton, wood and exotic products. Europe is literally the creation of the third world. The wealth which smothers her is that which was stolen from the under-developed peoples."



Whether I am a good person or not is irrelevant--it's not about "mode of thinking" or "moral superiority" but about common decency in the face of humanitarian disaster. One doesn't need to be a saint to see that what's happening at the moment is wrong, and that not enough is done to solve the problem.



Maybe because whe made those people "illegal" by not allowing them to come here legally, so children and their parents had to rely on the merciless traffickers and lost their lives as a result? Maybe because what actually happened in Syria and other countries had something to do with the policies of the USA and the EU, and interfering in their internal affairs? I don't know...

I don't know how much you have been following but I have suggested that what may well happen is that NATO navies will blockade the African coast and forcibly turn back all boats. Very sad scenario, admittedly, but what other solution is there. OK, I don't expect a number from you, but I am sure you get my point, that we cannot go on like this.
I did not make these people illegal -they made themselves illegal, and it is very unreasonable to state that european societies are to blame. Yes, they wish to escape from war, or just simply want more dosh, and so they ignore the poorer homes on the estate down the road, decide to go and stand in front of your much bigger house, get more and more angry because you are not letting them in, as their plight gets worse as winter closes in, and then someone from another unaffected part of town comes along and blames you for them being illegal.
As an aside, I suspect that we probably could take in Europe-wide the numbers sloshing about on borders, but everyone knows that this will simply invite more and more. This, surely, is the main fear.

 

[BadFish]

I don't know how much you have been following but I have suggested that what may well happen is that NATO navies will blockade the African coast and forcibly turn back all boats. Very sad scenario, admittedly, but what other solution is there. OK, I don't expect a number from you, but I am sure you get my point, that we cannot go on like this.
I did not make these people illegal -they made themselves illegal, and it is very unreasonable to state that european societies are to blame. Yes, they wish to escape from war, or just simply want more dosh, and so they ignore the poorer homes on the estate down the road, decide to go and stand in front of your much bigger house, get more and more angry because you are not letting them in, as their plight gets worse as winter closes in, and then someone from another unaffected part of town comes along and blames you for them being illegal.
As an aside, I suspect that we probably could take in Europe-wide the numbers sloshing about on borders, but everyone knows that this will simply invite more and more. This, surely, is the main fear.

On second thoughts.....

 

[Hastings gull]

We were talking about refugees, I didn't see any reason why you would bring other types of immigrants into it as they are not relevant to the pint being made.

I don't get the wrong end of the stick I just don't agree with the way you blur the lines between different types of immigrants to suit your agenda.

The average person in the UK does not see fine distinctions that you do from your ivory tower. Refugees, and don't forget that we only have their word that they are indeed refugees, will add to the tally of immigrants already here, and whether you like it or not, the bulk of the British people do not want immigration in the numbers that we are witnessing, and will presumably continue to witness. It is typical of someone relatively unaffected by immigration to dwell on these distinctions -I am sure that indigenous folk in, say, Leicester, will not give a dam.

 

[BadFish]

The average person in the UK does not see fine distinctions that you do from your ivory tower. Refugees, and don't forget that we only have their word that they are indeed refugees, will add to the tally of immigrants already here, and whether you like it or not, the bulk of the British people do not want immigration in the numbers that we are witnessing, and will presumably continue to witness. It is typical of someone relatively unaffected by immigration to dwell on these distinctions -I am sure that indigenous folk in, say, Leicester, will not give a dam.

Such arrogance to claim to speak on behalf of the average Brit.

Most UK people I speak to about this understand the distinctions and their influence on the debate. You clearly do not (your last two posts prove that) and that is to your detriment.

Oh and you forgot to Answer my question about the gaping hole in your suggested solution to this problem. Don't worry though, without understanding the basic terminology it probably isn't worth reading anyway.

 

[Hastings gull]

Such arrogance to claim to speak on behalf of the average Brit.

Most UK people I speak to about this understand the distinctions and their influence on the debate. You clearly do not (your last two posts prove that) and that is to your detriment.

Oh and you forgot to Answer my question about the gaping hole in your suggested solution to this problem. Don't worry though, without understanding the basic terminology it probably isn't worth reading anyway.

"Most UK people I speak to" - sounds rather like the claim that hundreds you know in OZ just by chance happen to share your feelings! In a way I admire your nerve to come out with such a thing as you know what UK folk think. How could you possibly be in a position to comment on what UK folk think? What utter arrogance, and yet you accuse me of that. Of course there is an academic distinction between refugees and economic migrants and the point that I am trying to get you to see, is that on the ground, and given the vast numbers, that distinction becomes very blurred. If a person, rightly or wrongly, perceives that their treatment has been unfair, say, with the allocation of housing, and that an immigrant family was seen to have jumped the queue, then it is extremely unlikely that they will see the fine distinctions that armchair experts feel are so important. Yet again, the fanatic gets fixated on something and barely bothers to read what is written, desperately trying to make "smart alec" style comments.
Whether you like it or not, most folk in the UK would accept limited migration for those genuinely in need, as has always been the case, and most folk are right behind the stand against what are clearly economic migrants in Calais. The fact that you seem to cast doubt on what I say most folk think, shows that you clearly do not know.

 

[BadFish]

[/B]
"Most UK people I speak to" - sounds rather like the claim that hundreds you know in OZ just by chance happen to share your feelings! In a way I admire your nerve to come out with such a thing as you know what UK folk think. How could you possibly be in a position to comment on what UK folk think? What utter arrogance, and yet you accuse me of that. Of course there is an academic distinction between refugees and economic migrants and the point that I am trying to get you to see, is that on the ground, and given the vast numbers, that distinction becomes very blurred. If a person, rightly or wrongly, perceives that their treatment has been unfair, say, with the allocation of housing, and that an immigrant family was seen to have jumped the queue, then it is extremely unlikely that they will see the fine distinctions that armchair experts feel are so important. Yet again, the fanatic gets fixated on something and barely bothers to read what is written, desperately trying to make "smart alec" style comments.
Whether you like it or not, most folk in the UK would accept limited migration for those genuinely in need, as has always been the case, and most folk are right behind the stand against what are clearly economic migrants in Calais. The fact that you seem to cast doubt on what I say most folk think, shows that you clearly do not know.

Deleted: This really isn't getting anywhere is it? Lets face it we are never going to agree and I don't think either of us are getting anything out of it, so how about we call it a day?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The average person in the UK does not see fine distinctions that you do from your ivory tower. Refugees, and don't forget that we only have their word that they are indeed refugees, will add to the tally of immigrants already here, and whether you like it or not, the bulk of the British people do not want immigration in the numbers that we are witnessing, and will presumably continue to witness. It is typical of someone relatively unaffected by immigration to dwell on these distinctions -I am sure that indigenous folk in, say, Leicester, will not give a dam.

I agree with you. As I have said countless times before, it's all well and good for people like Merkel to be telling everyone that these people need to spread around, however the UK already takes 300,000+ people a year legally, and that doesn't include illegals. If this country decides to start helping out it is quite possible we could see 400,000+ people a year, it's far too many people. I wish people would look at the numbers a lot more. When it this going to end?

We can't have the whole world moving to the EU. We are already seeing how open borders are unravelling in other countries, and how open borders and being a member of the EU is actually hindering other countries efforts to control the flow of people. Hungary constructed a fence across it's border, which by the way has already been breached. Nobody wants increased migration, not here and not in other EU countries.

The case for getting out of the EU is growing stronger day by day now, for a lot of people. I have always wanted out of the EU for this very reason.

 

[BigGully]

We were talking about refugees, I didn't see any reason why you would bring other types of immigrants into it as they are not relevant to the pint being made.

I don't get the wrong end of the stick I just don't agree with the way you blur the lines between different types of immigrants to suit your agenda.

If your are talking about services, housing, social cohesion, etc. then its a numbers game.

If you are talking about religious and cultural differences then its a geographical numbers game.

You cannot have it all ways, refugee/asylum status has undoubtedly been corrupted, those that have committed significant sums of money will be well briefed on what to say about their personal circumstances.

Therefore its not worthwhile trying to differentiate between the two at present we and the continent cannot mop up the global wreckage, its just unsustainable.

 

[Hastings gull]

I agree with you. As I have said countless times before, it's all well and good for people like Merkel to be telling everyone that these people need to spread around, however the UK already takes 300,000+ people a year legally, and that doesn't include illegals. If this country decides to start helping out it is quite possible we could see 400,000+ people a year, it's far too many people. I wish people would look at the numbers a lot more. When it this going to end?

We can't have the whole world moving to the EU. We are already seeing how open borders are unravelling in other countries, and how open borders and being a member of the EU is actually hindering other countries efforts to control the flow of people. Hungary constructed a fence across it's border, which by the way has already been breached. Nobody wants increased migration, not here and not in other EU countries.

The case for getting out of the EU is growing stronger day by day now, for a lot of people. I have always wanted out of the EU for this very reason.

Yes, thanks. This is it. Limited migration for those desperately in need will always be welcomed by the British people, but you and I both know that the hospitality is being vastly exploited. Open borders have not helped and various EU governments have now realised this. Watching German TV again last night, it was incredible the amount of stations that were talking about migration - despite Merkel's statements, they are very worried and those on the ground were voicing great concerns as to how to cope and who will pay. I have advocated drastic action, and I am sure that this will happen, sadly, because this cannot go on. As you rightly pointed out, and others have said, it is the numbers game which is so concerning, not necessarily the principle of helping fellow human beings.

 

[Hastings gull]

Deleted: This really isn't getting anywhere is it? Lets face it we are never going to agree and I don't think either of us are getting anything out of it, so how about we call it a day?

I understand your sentiments entirely, and I am sure that you are right. However, I live in Sussex, am an avid Albion supporter, and thus use NSC a lot. It would be difficult to avoid each other, would it not, if you wish to come on here and give your views. I am not suggesting you should not, but it might be an idea if you found a similar site in OZ where you would at least be able to write with more authority. That would presumably be the only way we could abandon the to-ing and fro-ing.

 

[BadFish]

I understand your sentiments entirely, and I am sure that you are right. However, I live in Sussex, am an avid Albion supporter, and thus use NSC a lot. It would be difficult to avoid each other, would it not, if you wish to come on here and give your views. I am not suggesting you should not, but it might be an idea if you found a similar site in OZ where you would at least be able to write with more authority. That would presumably be the only way we could abandon the to-ing and fro-ing.

 

[carlzeiss]

Fascinating look into the lives of would be UK migrants in Calais from Chanel 4 last night .

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/breaking-into-britain-the-lorry-jumpers/on-demand/60440-001

 

[BadFish]

Good on these Icelandic people.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...efugees-to-help-european-crisis-10480505.html

 

[Guy Crouchback]

Good on these Icelandic people.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...efugees-to-help-european-crisis-10480505.html

Incredible!

11 thousand out of 330,000 total population--that's more than 3%! It's as if 1,200,000 Poles or over 2 MILLION Brits offered to share their flats and houses with refugees! Chapeau bas!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Incredible!

11 thousand out of 330,000 total population--that's more than 3%! It's as if 1,200,000 Poles or over 2 MILLION Brits offered to share their flats and houses with refugees! Chapeau bas!

As an aside the Frau's fee-paying International school are taking on refugee students for free.