UK national debt still increasing by £2.3 billion a week...

[Stumpy Tim]

A single flat rate of income tax. What you earn you get taxed 20% on. Simplify the tax office, cutting costs there - and everyone pays the same percentage.

Rich people evade tax because they're getting 50% taken off them. It's too high (as is 45% when it changes).

 

[Simster]

A single flat rate of income tax. What you earn you get taxed 20% on. Simplify the tax office, cutting costs there - and everyone pays the same percentage.

Rich people evade tax because they're getting 50% taken off them. It's too high (as is 45% when it changes).

I've been coming round to this way of thinking myself. One rate of tax, ideally making it the same rate as corporation tax, and we'd save money on all sorts of costs. Money spent on administering the ridiculous tax system as it is, could then be spent on overhauling the outdated welfare state.

 

[beorhthelm]

A single flat rate of income tax. What you earn you get taxed 20% on. Simplify the tax office, cutting costs there - and everyone pays the same percentage.

It would need to be 30% (to cover NI), but yes this would be a straight forward solution to a lot of issues.

 

[sten_super]

It would need to be 30% (to cover NI), but yes this would be a straight forward solution to a lot of issues.

Really? I think it would blow a massive hole in the income tax revenue projections.

There are also a myriad of questions (like Simster's suggestion on corporation tax). What do you do about capital gains tax? Or VAT? What happens to the tax-free allowance? How do you prevent the marginal rate of tax being higher for lower earners?

edit to add: I also think the premise that high earners avoid (and evade) tax because they think they are being taxed 'too much' is naive. IMHO they avoid tax because they can - whereas saying it's 'too high' suggests there's some value they'd be happy to pay. Of course there is a cost-benefit analysis to be done, but if the benefits outweigh the costs I think most people would do it, and sod the rest of the population. The only case for simplifying the tax bands as suggested in my mind is to cut down on administrative costs, but as mentioned I think the cut to revenues would far outweigh that.

 

[Titanic]

...How do you prevent the marginal rate of tax being higher for lower earners?

A higher threshold before you start paying tax at all? Rather like Messrs Cameron and Osbourne have been doing...

2011-12 £7,475
2012-13 £8,105
2013-14 £9,440
2014-15 £10,000

 

[sten_super]

A higher threshold before you start paying tax at all? Rather like Messrs Cameron and Osbourne have been doing...

2011-12 £7,475
2012-13 £8,105
2013-14 £9,440
2014-15 £10,000

The issue though is how you manage the tax-free allowance against reductions in benefit payments. I'm not saying it can't be done, and I'm absolutely in favour of simplying the tax rules, it's just that I think it's a bit more complicated (both to set out the 'rules' for and to actually manage) than just saying 'lets set a flat tax rate and massively reduce the administrative burden'.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Kill everyone that earns less than 200K a year.

This , only Tory voters would be left so there is no need to provide benefits of any kind.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Isn't there some mineral-rich Third World country we can colonise?

We've tried this approach with Iraq. It's not worked out too well.

 

[Nibble]

This , only Tory voters would be left so there is no need to provide benefits of any kind.

Well, no benefits except the ones we pay to the Queen and her scabby family, all the MP's, Lords and whatnot.

 

[Triggaaar]

When are the Populus going to realise that the Labour party is NOT FOR THE WORKING MAN

Not in our lifetime. The idea that Tory MPs are self serving whilst Labour MPs are for the people is laughable. And the idea that the Tories simply want to ignore the poor is equally stupid. Most MPs are largely self-interested regardless of their party.

 

[Bulldog]

We could sell off some of our gold, if Brown had not already done it when prices were low and we were supposedly doing ok.

Brown cost us about 9 Billion quid flogging the gold at the wrong time. What do you think Thatcher and Major cost us flogging the family silver off at knock down prices for political reasons? A hell of a lot more that 9 billion I would think.

Amersham International (1982)
Associated British Ports (1983, 1984)
British Aerospace (1981, 1985)
British Airports Authority (1987)
British Airways (1987)
British Airways Helicopters (1986)
British Gas (1986)
British Leyland
Alvis (1981)
Coventry Climax (1982)
Danish Automobile Building (1987)
Istel (1987)
Jaguar (1984)
Leyland Bus (1987)
Leyland Tractors (1982)
Leyland Trucks (1987)
Rover Group (1988)
Unipart (1987)
British Rail Engineering Limited (1989)
British Shipbuilders (1985 - 1989, shipbuilder companies sold individually)
British Steel (1988)
British Sugar (1981)
British Telecom (1984, 1991, 1993)
British Transport Hotels (1983)
Britoil (1982, 1985)
Cable and Wireless (1981, 1983, 1985)
Council Houses (1980–present, over two million sold to their tenants)
Enterprise Oil (1984)
Fairey (1980)
Ferranti (1980)
Inmos (1984)
Municipal Bus Companies (1988–present, bus companies sold individually)
National Bus Company (1986 - 1988, bus companies sold individually)
National Express (1988)
National Freight Corporation (1982)
Passenger Transport Executive Bus Companies (1988 - 1994, bus companies sold individually)
Rolls-Royce (1987)
Royal Ordnance (1987)
Sealink (1984)
Trustee Savings Bank (1985)
Vale of Rheidol Railway (1989)
Water Companies - see main article Water privatisation in England and Wales
Anglian Water (1989)
Northumbrian Water (1989)
North West Water (1989)
Severn Trent (1989)
Southern Water (1989)
South West Water (1989)
Thames Water (1989)
Welsh Water (1989)
Wessex Water (1989)
Yorkshire Water (1989)
1990s
3G spectrum (1999)
AEA Technology (1996)
Agricultural Development and Advisory Service (1997)
Belfast International Airport (1994)
Birmingham Airport (1993 - 51%)
Bournemouth Airport (1995)
Bristol Airport (1997, 2001)
British Coal (1994)
British Energy (1996)
British Rail - see main article Privatisation of British Rail
3 Rolling Stock Companies
Angel Trains (1996)
Eversholt Leasing (1996)
Porterbrook (1996)
6 Design Office Units (1995 - 1997, sold individually)
6 Freight Operating Companies
Freightliner (1995)
Loadhaul (1996)
Mainline Freight (1996)
Rail Express Systems (1996)
Railfreight Distribution (1997)
Transrail Freight (1996)
6 Track Renewal Units (1995 - 1997, sold individually)
7 Infrastructure Maintenance Units (1995 - 1997, sold individually)
25 Train Operating Companies (1996, operations contracted out as franchises)
British Rail Research (1996)
British Rail Telecommunications (1995)
European Passenger Services (1996)
Railtrack (1996), (18 October 2002 went into voluntary liquidation) now in public ownership as Network Rail
Red Star Parcels (1995)
Union Railways (1996)
British Technology Group (1992)
Building Research Establishment (1997)
Cardiff Airport (1995)
Central Electricity Generating Board
National Grid (1990)
National Power (1991, 1995)
Powergen (1991, 1995)
Chessington Computer Centre (1996)
Department for National Savings (1999, back office functions contracted out)
East Midlands Airport (1993)
Girobank (1990)
Humberside Airport (1999 - 82%)
Kingston Communications (1999, 2007)
Laboratory of the Government Chemist (1996)
Liverpool Airport (1990, 2001)
London Buses (1994, bus companies sold individually) - see main article Privatisation of London bus services
London Luton Airport (1997)
London Southend Airport (1993)
National Engineering Laboratory (1995)
National Transcommunications Limited (1990)
Natural Resources Institute (1996)
Northern Ireland Electricity (1993)
Property Services Agency (1994)
Regional Electricity Companies
Eastern Electricity (1990)
East Midlands Electricity (1990)
London Electricity (1990)
MANWEB (1990)
Midlands Electricity (1990)
Northern Electric (1990)
NORWEB (1990)
SEEBOARD (1990)
Southern Electric (1990)
SWALEC (1990)
SWEB Energy (1990)
Yorkshire Electricity (1990)
Scottish Bus Group (1991, bus companies sold individually)
Scottish Hydro-Electric (1991)
Scottish Power (1991)
Severn Bridge (1992)
Student loans portfolios (1998, 1999)
The Stationery Office (1996)
Transport Research Laboratory (1996)
Trust Ports (1992–1997, ports sold individually)

 

[beorhthelm]

Really? I think it would blow a massive hole in the income tax revenue projections.

There are also a myriad of questions (like Simster's suggestion on corporation tax). What do you do about capital gains tax? Or VAT? What happens to the tax-free allowance? How do you prevent the marginal rate of tax being higher for lower earners?

i was refering only to income tax so VAT, CGT and corporation tax would remain. as would the tax free allowance. how would lower earners have higher marginal tax when its the same? as i understand it the books would balance on account of the earnings above the NI upper threshhold being covered, though this maybe out of date now with state of the finances. end of day, at least merging NI into income tax would help.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I believe National Girobank was sold to Alliance & Leicester for £1.

 

[beorhthelm]

Brown cost us about 9 Billion quid flogging the gold at the wrong time. What do you think Thatcher and Major cost us flogging the family silver off at knock down prices for political reasons? A hell of a lot more that 9 billion I would think.

nice list. would care to revise with how much profit or loss they were making for the state, and highlight who would cover any losses?

 

[El Presidente]

Perhaps we should have done the same as the Norwegians and realise that North Sea oil reserves were a windfall, so use all the revenues from that source to build up a huge sovereign wealth fund for the country that would last for the indefinite future for the whole nation?

The alternative would be a systematic dismantle of outdated industries and using North Sea oil to cover the increased benefit costs to the state, no one would be that stupid would they?

 

[El Presidente]

That post by Pavionaire about Labour gets my vote too...everytime that bunch gets in the economy nosedives and someone has to put right their mistakes.
When are the Populus going to realise that the Labour party is NOT FOR THE WORKING MAN...Spend,borrow is not a good policy...all the doubters must be dismayed that we have the fastest growing economy in Europe and most of the world..that the employment figures are the best for years.....not flatlining like that idiot Ed Balls kept saying...

I'm no big fan of Labour but that doesn't stand up to a detailed analysis.

The economy is still a mess as the current growth is being driven by borrowing rather than productivity increases.

None of the political parties have an economic program is anything other than a series of cheap soundbites, so they all switch the agenda to easy win issues that have little or no bearing on improving living standards on a sustainable basis.

 

[El Presidente]

That post by Pavionaire about Labour gets my vote too...everytime that bunch gets in the economy nosedives and someone has to put right their mistakes.
When are the Populus going to realise that the Labour party is NOT FOR THE WORKING MAN...Spend,borrow is not a good policy...all the doubters must be dismayed that we have the fastest growing economy in Europe and most of the world..that the employment figures are the best for years.....not flatlining like that idiot Ed Balls kept saying...

I'm no big fan of Labour but that doesn't stand up to a detailed analysis.

The economy is still a mess as the current growth is being driven by borrowing rather than productivity increases.

None of the political parties have an economic program is anything other than a series of cheap soundbites, so they all switch the agenda to easy win issues that have little or no bearing on improving living standards on a sustainable basis.

 

[sten_super]

i was refering only to income tax so VAT, CGT and corporation tax would remain. as would the tax free allowance. how would lower earners have higher marginal tax when its the same? as i understand it the books would balance on account of the earnings above the NI upper threshhold being covered, though this maybe out of date now with state of the finances. end of day, at least merging NI into income tax would help.

Well lower earners tend to pay a higher proportion of their income on VAT, as they spent more (and save less) than the better off, for starters. You would need (IMHO) to harmonise at least CGT and corporation tax, to avoid entrepreneurs putting their income through whichever had the lowest tax band. Currently, at the lower rate of income tax the rate is 20% and income tax contributions are 9% (so total tax rate 29%) compared to (assuming that the bands for income tax and NI are the same, which isn't too far away) the upper rate is 40% (or 45%) plus 2% NI I believe (so 42% or 47%). So there's definitely a gap being created in the combined income tax/NI contributions by flattening the rate to 30% across the board.

 

[gordonchas]

Brown cost us about 9 Billion quid flogging the gold at the wrong time. What do you think Thatcher and Major cost us flogging the family silver off at knock down prices for political reasons? A hell of a lot more that 9 billion I would think.

A lot of the companies on your list were either unmanageable or loss-making, mostly both.

And of course an awful lot of that "family silver" had been purloined from private companies in order to be nationalised in the first place.

 

[Kevlar]

the problem with the government sector deficit the great straw man of economics
this is the"debt" which has not been paid back for 430 years and will NEVER be paid back
as other posters have mentioned relative to GDP this"debt" has been greater in the past
including from the 1920's to the 60's
and that was before the introduction of pure fiat currencies in 1971 the end of the Bretton Woods system
the end of all monetary gold liabilities and no fixed currency exchange rates to defend
this new monetary reality means it is far easier to run higher government sector deficits than it was
when that debt was much higher relatively in post napoleonic times
What is a government sector deficit?
when the Bank Of England adds more pounds into the accounts of households and firms than it extracts in taxes
pound for pound a government sector deficit = a private sector surplus
being a net importing country the UK (its combined government and private sector) is in a monetary deficit
with the rest of the world .
If the UK govt sector ran a balanced budget then it will be the UK private sector that is running a deficit
currently the govt sector deficit is greater than the external deficit leaving the private sector in an aggregate surplus.


Personally I had no time for the new labour government but the suggestions that they ruined the economy is silly.
They may have completely capitulated to the neo liberal paradigm
joined the idolatry of the"free" market and went along with the deregulation of financial services
but the GLOBAL financial crisis was born in the USA on the back massive investment in consolidated debt packages
hedges on sub prime mortgages -bets which the global finance casino could not pay up on.
So if the UK government had run a surplus in the "good years" would that have helped?
Well lets look at another net importing European country which managed to run a small government surplus
between 2000-8 Spain
How did Spain running a government sector surplus cope with the GLOBAL financial crisis
well it's government had to be bailed out so it could bail out its banks
currently there is over half of people under 25unemployed in Spain