UK jobs market recovery 'to stall'

[simmo]

I think I made my basis quite clear. Sadly bashing the Government is trendy, even Labour had to put up with it while they introduced the national minimum wage, winter fuel payments, banned fox hunting, free bus travel for over 60's,free entry to national museums and free nursery places for three and four-year-olds... now people really have something to moan about.

When the history of the last hundred years are written I am sure these magnificent efforts will shine like a beacon compared to all other acheivements of all other political parties over the generations. How can the people of Britain not have seen in a glorious 13 years of New Labour, that the banning of fox hunting, free entry to museums etc was worth the £165,000,000,000 debt racked up on the credit card to achieve it. What fools!

Economics does seem to be a very blind spot to the left, they seem to have virtaully no comprehension of it. Is there anyone on the left willing to admit that after the last 13 years of Labour government we as a country are broke, in fact we are much much much worse than broke we are humungously in debt and we have to do something about it before our creditors pull the plug.

P.S. If 600,000 (or however many) people are to be made redundant in the public sector the governments hope is that the private sector will be sufficently buoyant enough again to require employees and pick up this slack, whether that occurs or not time will tell, it is way too early to say.

 

[bhaexpress]

What gets me is that should the government decide to get 'efficiency experts' in to improve the public sector they'll end up doing what they have done with their IT, they'll either do it from within which is like getting a snake to catch a scorpion or else put it out to tender, accept the lowest bid and then employ some half arsed foreign concern like Fujitsu (who have done a good job of making the mess left by EDS as bad at HRMC) .

 

[BLOCK F]

When the history of the last hundred years are written I am sure these magnificent efforts will shine like a beacon compared to all other acheivements of all other political parties over the generations. How can the people of Britain not have seen in a glorious 13 years of New Labour, that the banning of fox hunting, free entry to museums etc was worth the £165,000,000,000 debt racked up on the credit card to achieve it. What fools!

Economics does seem to be a very blind spot to the left, they seem to have virtaully no comprehension of it. Is there anyone on the left willing to admit that after the last 13 years of Labour government we as a country are broke, in fact we are much much much worse than broke we are humungously in debt and we have to do something about it before our creditors pull the plug.

P.S. If 600,000 (or however many) people are to be made redundant in the public sector the governments hope is that the private sector will be sufficently buoyant enough again to require employees and pick up this slack, whether that occurs or not time will tell, it is way too early to say.

Agreed.

 

[ROSM]

Do you really think they would've done that? They overspent for 8 of the 12 years they were in power, all the good ministers had resigned or been sacked, someone else had to have a chance.

I'm not saying the current shower of shite will get it right, I can't really comment on what they'll get wrong as that would just be guessing. All I know is what I read in the papers an noises from tory MPs are that cuts are going too far.

I just find it very boring that people are so one eyed and polarised on this board, it's constant evil tories and wonderful labour or vice versa.
Labour might get another chance to redeem themselves in 4 years if they can get their act together.

What is apparent is that all the post election economic indicators show that Labour's poilicies were working. Level of debt was dropping, economy was recovering, unemployment was levelling. Even the OBR has demonstrated that.

 

[ROSM]

Reading the thoughts on this thread one would believe that the Tories are having a "mare", however the latest opinion polls have them at 44% plus 8 vs the General Election.

Thus the public seem to believe they are doing a good job of sorting out the dreadful mess they inherited.

I wish some people could get over the fact that their party (labour) lost and start using the board to debate Football!

By the way some of the thoughts on this thread are simply laughable, stick to talking about something you actually know about (and yes I do)

Actually the very latest ComRes for the Independent shows Lib Dems down 2 to 16, cons down to 39 and labour up 2 to 33

 

[ROSM]

When the history of the last hundred years are written I am sure these magnificent efforts will shine like a beacon compared to all other acheivements of all other political parties over the generations. How can the people of Britain not have seen in a glorious 13 years of New Labour, that the banning of fox hunting, free entry to museums etc was worth the £165,000,000,000 debt racked up on the credit card to achieve it. What fools!

Economics does seem to be a very blind spot to the left, they seem to have virtaully no comprehension of it. Is there anyone on the left willing to admit that after the last 13 years of Labour government we as a country are broke, in fact we are much much much worse than broke we are humungously in debt and we have to do something about it before our creditors pull the plug.

P.S. If 600,000 (or however many) people are to be made redundant in the public sector the governments hope is that the private sector will be sufficently buoyant enough again to require employees and pick up this slack, whether that occurs or not time will tell, it is way too early to say.

But you're forgetting the money spent on education and health - which needed to be spent due to the policies of the previous government. Where we are at any point is time is usually driven by the policies of the previous 30 years.

And I don't swallow the 'creditors' pulling the plug argument. The improvements seen during May and June would have seen that off.

 

[Titanic]

When the history of the last hundred years are written I am sure these magnificent efforts will shine like a beacon compared to all other acheivements of all other political parties over the generations. How can the people of Britain not have seen in a glorious 13 years of New Labour, that the banning of fox hunting, free entry to museums etc was worth the £165,000,000,000 debt racked up on the credit card to achieve it. What fools!

Economics does seem to be a very blind spot to the left, they seem to have virtaully no comprehension of it. Is there anyone on the left willing to admit that after the last 13 years of Labour government we as a country are broke, in fact we are much much much worse than broke we are humungously in debt and we have to do something about it before our creditors pull the plug.

P.S. If 600,000 (or however many) people are to be made redundant in the public sector the governments hope is that the private sector will be sufficently buoyant enough again to require employees and pick up this slack, whether that occurs or not time will tell, it is way too early to say.

£165,000,000,000 is the annual deficit... the total credit card bill is rapidly approaching £1,500,000,000,000.

 

[sten_super]

What is apparent is that all the post election economic indicators show that Labour's poilicies were working. Level of debt was dropping, economy was recovering, unemployment was levelling. Even the OBR has demonstrated that.

Just out of interest, are you one of the people that say that Labour can't be blamed for the recession as it was a global recession? Because if so, it seems rather hypocritical to give them credit for emerging from it, when most of the growth has been due to increases in global demand. The government spending undoubtedly had a role, but it's generally thought that spending can help to limit the depth of a recession, rather that truly drag an economy out of one.

Another interesting point that Labour supporters (and ROSM this isn't aimed at you) like to crow about is that Gordon Brown apparently lead global consensus in his spending plans, and yet they go quiet when it is suggested that George Osbourne did exactly the same with his austerity plans, which have been picked up and adopted by the vast majority of EU member states.

The economy is recovering slowly, and this is likely to be the pattern for the medium term at least. This is likely to be the case across Europe, and also in the US, despite growing pressure for another large tranche of public spending. There has apparently been a permanent loss of output bought about by the recession, as the OBR attempt to measure, although I'm always rather skeptical about this myself. The output gap measures (which are those which have been revised a couple of times recently due to Labour overestimating their borrowing requirements and revisions to quarterly GDP figures) assume that the levels of growth seen before the downturn were in fact sustainable, and not part of a boom period, which seems rather false to me.

In short (bloody hell this is a long post), we are in this together. Our economy cannot be dragged out of the doldrums by increases in domestic demand (although that would undoubtedly help), but instead we are dependent upon increasing demand from our European and American partners (alongside strong continued performance from China and India) for long term growth. Osbourne's plans for the economy are by no means unique, and it will be interesting to see the impact across the range of EU member states; I suspect that we will not have the worst of it by a long shot.

 

[ROSM]

I think there was a global recession and that has to be viewed on top of the plans the government already had. Can they be totally absolved? Not in my opinion.

However the austerity plans are cutting into the muscle rather than dealing with the fat and I think Osborne is looking at us as if we're Greece or Spain and we're not. We are more like Germany and the US and have the benefit of not being in the Euro. I think we are more likely to see a double dip recession than we were 4 months ago and I don't think the private sector is strong enough to take onboard the level of change required to support cuts in the private sector.

 

[simmo]

But you're forgetting the money spent on education and health - which needed to be spent due to the policies of the previous government. Where we are at any point is time is usually driven by the policies of the previous 30 years.

And I don't swallow the 'creditors' pulling the plug argument. The improvements seen during May and June would have seen that off.

You just don't get it do you. Does it never dawn on you the Tories would love to spend billions/trillions on health/education (in every govt department) as all political parties in the world would because they ultimately want our votes. But at some time there comes a point when economic nous says, no we must cut our cloth as we see it we can't afford this and we must put a limit on this, that is what the Tories (in my opinion) try to do. Labour and the left seem to think that this does not apply to them and can just blow it all on the credit card and that is why we are now £165,000,000,000 in debt.

An example of pulling the plug is what is/was happening in Greece now (junk ratings etc. difficult to get further credit, draconian cuts to public spendings an absolute necessity now). The markets/creditors would have no hesitation in sweeping the UK in with Greece if the new government didn't come up with a realistic plan to do something about the biggest peacetime debt ever, now.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Interesting that the previous govt spent millions on trying to get a new IT system for the Job Centre, then scrapped it.

Millions.

 

[Uncle C]

You will be pleased to hear that the recession has not started yet. With low interest rates, many people found themselves even better off.

Quantitative Easing just postponed the inevitable. Its effects are just beginning to wear off, so get ready for the real hardship.

 

[Titanic]

You just don't get it do you. Does it never dawn on you the Tories would love to spend billions/trillions on health/education (in every govt department) as all political parties in the world would because they ultimately want our votes. But at some time there comes a point when economic nous says, no we must cut our cloth as we see it we can't afford this and we must put a limit on this, that is what the Tories (in my opinion) try to do. Labour and the left seem to think that this does not apply to them and can just blow it all on the credit card and that is why we are now £165,000,000,000 in debt.

An example of pulling the plug is what is/was happening in Greece now (junk ratings etc. difficult to get further credit, draconian cuts to public spendings an absolute necessity now). The markets/creditors would have no hesitation in sweeping the UK in with Greece if the new government didn't come up with a realistic plan to do something about the biggest peacetime debt ever, now.

As I said earlier, £165,000,000,000 is the annual deficit (the amount we are adding to the national debt this year)... the total national credit card bill is rapidly approaching £1,500,000,000,000.

 

[simmo]

As I said earlier, £165,000,000,000 is the annual deficit (the amount we are adding to the national debt this year)... the total national credit card bill is rapidly approaching £1,500,000,000,000.

Yes, sorry did see that. Still not good reading though whatever way you look at it. It is worth putting down all those noughts just to realise how much it is, shameful!

 

[Tubby Mondays]

You just don't get it do you. Does it never dawn on you the Tories would love to spend billions/trillions on health/education (in every govt department) as all political parties in the world would because they ultimately want our votes.

Would they?! They have never done before! The financial climate has given them an excuse to do what they always do; cut the public sector to allow them to cut taxes. Thats how they win votes. Thats how theyve always won votes!

 

[Tubby Mondays]

Im in insurance and thankfully we didnt, neither did solicitiors, or IT or accountancy etc. In fact they would have gone bust but hen they understand market conditions.

Oh you mean banking. Its not the ONLY industry thats private you know. Besides the public sector is well over inflated*

*with the exception of the emegency services

Iam well aware of that thank you. Could I also point out that not everyone in the public sector sits around on beanbags trying to help everyone give up smoking!

What I was trying to put across is that it is very easy to say that the public sector cost £x amount. Everyone then cries and wets the bed and says cut it cut it. But what they havent realised (for whatever reason) is that that £x includes the money that was used to bail out the banks, which if hadnt have been done would have been catastrophic (spelling?).

So bascially public services and jobs end up being cut due to the mistakes of the banks.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

Reading the thoughts on this thread one would believe that the Tories are having a "mare", however the latest opinion polls have them at 44% plus 8 vs the General Election.

Thus the public seem to believe they are doing a good job of sorting out the dreadful mess they inherited.

I wish some people could get over the fact that their party (labour) lost and start using the board to debate Football!

By the way some of the thoughts on this thread are simply laughable, stick to talking about something you actually know about (and yes I do)

There are many thoughts on the football related threads that are beyond laughable and veer right through tragic into demented, so any half sensible debate on anything is fine by me.

Enjoy your 'How many will we take to...', 'Best chant of the day', 'How do I get to...' 'The bloke behind me had a runny nose and a cough' and 'Player ratings' by someone who attending their second ever 'soccer' game and couldnt get in their cubs team threads.

 

[simmo]

Would they?! They have never done before! The financial climate has given them an excuse to do what they always do; cut the public sector to allow them to cut taxes. Thats how they win votes. Thats how theyve always won votes!

If any political party in the world had the oppurtunity of an unlimited cheque book to splash the money on public spending they would do so, why do you think government ministers of all sides, always want more and more money for their portfolio, but get this Labour fans in the real world there is not an unlimited cheque book and the Tories realise this and try to balance the books, maybe one day you will too.

In George Osbourne budget in July I didn't see many tax cuts then, isn't VAT (amongst other rises) to be raised to 20% on Jan 4 2011, to help pay for our crippling debt, so how does this sit with your pre-conceived, ill thought out, sterotypical rent a quote last sentence.

 

[Silent Bob]

Would they?! They have never done before! The financial climate has given them an excuse to do what they always do; cut the public sector to allow them to cut taxes. Thats how they win votes. Thats how theyve always won votes!

Indeed, and only last week Cameron indicated the cuts he's making will stay even when the economic situation is healthier. If there needed to be any proof that the tories are idealogically driven to reduce the size of the state that was it.
A small state and private business providing services is what they believe, it's what they've always believed in. If you consider yourself a conservative but don't believe in that you might want to reconsider who you vote for.

 

[beorhthelm]

A small state and private business providing services is what they believe, it's what they've always believed in.

yep. good isnt it? one might like to point out that traditionally the Liberal party believed in a small state (or localised decision making). the ineffecient monstrosity of central command and control state led everything is only supported by the Labour party (and the commies, but there seems fewer of them than the far right these days).