[Brighton] UBER Licence Revoked in Brighton and Hove

[beorhthelm]

What is this deregulation you talk of, every Uber driver has to apply for and obtain a PHL, you do get that right?

people seem to be offended by how Uber operate somewhere else and overlook they are still subject to regulation here (and elsewhere usually). there is not race to the bottom either, simply a competitor cutting overhead costs and allowing causal employment in this area without being tied to radio rents etc.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

My gripe is, like many sectors before, I don’t like the back door deregulation and race-to-the-bottom which the taxi profession is now suffering from this element of the gig economy. Personally I rarely experience the issues you highlight (and I have a lot of experience!), but if taxi standards do need raising then fair enough but do this via other methods.

How can service standards be improved if there is no competition ? Streamline had no app until Uber came along - they were forced into playing catch up. Uber takes the fare from your card automatically - Streamline don't. In fact I used Streamline a couple of weeks ago as there were 5 of us. Tried to pay by card and was told I should have mentioned it at the time of booking that I wanted to pay by card - REALLY ?? In this day and age ? Ended up diverting to a cash point - obviously at my cost ! Walk along East Street and see how many of the taxis have taken out the front passenger seat to prevent anyone sitting there. Mrs W suffers from claustrophobia and it helps if she can sit in the front and use a fully opening window ( not the stupid clip windows ). I've lost count how many times I've had to give Streamline drivers directions.

All of these things can only be fixed with competition - no amount of council 'rules' will remove these issues.

 

[5ways]

Let the market decide.

 

[Biscuit]

A taxi driver once left the meter running while my friend was sorting out the money to pay the fare. I pointed out this wasn't right, and I was told "It's a busy night. Market forces." Shame B&H Taxi's don't seem to be so keen on market forces now Ubers in town challenging their monopoly and rip-off prices.

 

[Biscuit]

How can service standards be improved if there is no competition ? Streamline had no app until Uber came along - they were forced into playing catch up. Uber takes the fare from your card automatically - Streamline don't. In fact I used Streamline a couple of weeks ago as there were 5 of us. Tried to pay by card and was told I should have mentioned it at the time of booking that I wanted to pay by card - REALLY ?? In this day and age ? Ended up diverting to a cash point - obviously at my cost ! Walk along East Street and see how many of the taxis have taken out the front passenger seat to prevent anyone sitting there. Mrs W suffers from claustrophobia and it helps if she can sit in the front and use a fully opening window ( not the stupid clip windows ). I've lost count how many times I've had to give Streamline drivers directions.

All of these things can only be fixed with competition - no amount of council 'rules' will remove these issues.

This doesn't just happen in Brighton. I travel the country a lot for work and I can count with one hand the number of taxis which have let me pay by card. It's insanely archaic. Who carries cash anymore?

 

[beorhthelm]

This doesn't just happen in Brighton. I travel the country a lot for work and I can count with one hand the number of taxis which have let me pay by card. It's insanely archaic. Who carries cash anymore?

cabbies?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How can service standards be improved if there is no competition ? Streamline had no app until Uber came along - they were forced into playing catch up. Uber takes the fare from your card automatically - Streamline don't. In fact I used Streamline a couple of weeks ago as there were 5 of us. Tried to pay by card and was told I should have mentioned it at the time of booking that I wanted to pay by card - REALLY ?? In this day and age ? Ended up diverting to a cash point - obviously at my cost ! Walk along East Street and see how many of the taxis have taken out the front passenger seat to prevent anyone sitting there. Mrs W suffers from claustrophobia and it helps if she can sit in the front and use a fully opening window ( not the stupid clip windows ). I've lost count how many times I've had to give Streamline drivers directions.

All of these things can only be fixed with competition - no amount of council 'rules' will remove these issues.

Council rules can remove these issues. Because as we have just found out if you don’t comply with the rules you lose your license.

As an aside, genuine question, are there more aqua blue and white taxi firms in Brighton? Or is it just Streamline? I use taxis in Brighton a lot but never pay much attention to the operator(s).

 

[bhaseeer]

A crypto tokenised taxi solution will kill uber and taxis as we know it.....in about 3 years time.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

From the council:

Dear All,

Please find attached the Licensing Panel’s decision letter, dated 1st May 2018, following the licensing sub-committee (Panel) hearing on the 23rd April 2018 to determine UBL’s renewal application of their private hire operators licence. Below is the Council’s press statement.

Uber licence renewal turned down
Following the hearing on Monday 23 April, Brighton & Hove City Council’s licensing panel has decided against renewing Uber Britannia Ltd’s Private Hire Operator Licence in the city.
The unanimous decision was taken as the members of the panel were not satisfied that UBL are a ‘fit and proper person’ to hold an operator’s licence under the terms of Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 and the council’s licensing objectives.

The panel considered all circumstances relating to the application and the factors operating in Brighton & Hove. This included a number of issues raised by those objecting to the application, which they found to carry very little or no evidential weight.

However, the panel do have significant concerns about the company’s data breach and UBL’s lack of commitment to use only Brighton & Hove licensed drivers in the city. These formed the basis of the decision to not renew the licence.
Chair of the licensing panel, Councillor Jackie O’Quinn, said (TBC): “When making Hackney Carriage and Private Hire operator licensing decisions, our priority is the safety of residents and visitors and, due to the data breach and the lack of commitment to using drivers licensed here, we were not satisfied that UBL are a fit and proper person to hold an operator’s licence in the city.

“All Brighton & Hove private hire and Hackney Carriage drivers in the city operate under the same licences and guidelines contained in the Blue Book and undergo the same background checks, whichever company they drive for. In the original application in 2015, UBL gave a firm commitment to adhere to the standards set out in the Blue Book and only to use Brighton & Hove licensed drivers. We do not feel the spirit of this commitment has been kept to. In the panel’s view, large numbers of taxis operating in the city that do not meet our Blue Book standards puts the safety of residents and visitors at potential risk.

“We recognise there are strong feelings on this issue and would like to thank all those who took the time to make submissions to the hearing.”

For more details on the decision, read the full decision letter (attached). see http://www.bhtaxinews.cab/downlo…/2018-0501-uber-refusal.pdf

The hearing was held in public to make the process as open and transparent as possible. As well as representatives from Uber, the panel heard views for and against renewing the licence from interested parties, including residents and the local taxi trade.

If Uber decide to appeal against the decision, their drivers licensed with Brighton & Hove can continue to operate in the city while the appeal is heard. Any appeal must be made to the Magistrates Court (Edward Street, Brighton) within 21 days of notification of this decision

So, breaching data protection and not complying with their own commitments. Do we really want to encourage this kind of business? No, we don’t. It’s no wonder this shoddy company has lost its license.

 

[brightn'ove]

Good. Don't like Uber. Never used it, doubt I ever will. Same with Air B&B. No time for these new-fangled ideas. We managed just fine without them.

Dictionary definition of a luddite.

 

[Chicken Run]

So, breaching data protection and not complying with their own commitments. Do we really want to encourage this kind of business? No, we don’t. It’s no wonder this shoddy company has lost its license.

Was the data breach in Brighton & Hove? , it takes 8 months to get a B&HCC PHL so there are obviously fewer drivers with that licence considering Uber have only been operational for 18 months !!!

Anyway as always there is so much clear blue sky between you and me on practically everything up for debate , so I bow to your greater knowledge!!!!

 

[Whitechapel]

After the Spurs game I went for a couple of beers in Brighton and planned to get the train home. Got to the station only to find that the 12:05 train was now a bus replacement so decided to get a cab back with some mates. It was the first time in a while I had got a B&H cab, as the last time I used one our driver charged a fixed fee to Shoreham and then stopped on the Shoreham boarder and tried to demand more money to drive us in to the middle of Shoreham so I had done my best to avoid them.

From Brighton station to just past Hove Cementry the cab had reached £40. £40 for a journey that is less than 4 miles. Like **** was I sitting in there all the way to Lancing. Got out, told him he was taking the piss and then ordered an Uber. The last 8 miles home in an Uber cost me £16.

I don’t use Uber solely because it’s cheaper. If I’m out in Worthing I’ll order an Arrow cab. But when my experiences with Brighton & Hove cabs boils down to “this punter has had a couple of pints so I’ll stick the fare up and hope he doesn’t realise” then there’s no f*cking chance I’m going to use them.

 

[Weststander]

After the Spurs game I went for a couple of beers in Brighton and planned to get the train home. Got to the station only to find that the 12:05 train was now a bus replacement so decided to get a cab back with some mates. It was the first time in a while I had got a B&H cab, as the last time I used one our driver charged a fixed fee to Shoreham and then stopped on the Shoreham boarder and tried to demand more money to drive us in to the middle of Shoreham so I had done my best to avoid them.

From Brighton station to just past Hove Cementry the cab had reached £40. £40 for a journey that is less than 4 miles. Like **** was I sitting in there all the way to Lancing. Got out, told him he was taking the piss and then ordered an Uber. The last 8 miles home in an Uber cost me £16.

I don’t use Uber solely because it’s cheaper. If I’m out in Worthing I’ll order an Arrow cab. But when my experiences with Brighton & Hove cabs boils down to “this punter has had a couple of pints so I’ll stick the fare up and hope he doesn’t realise” then there’s no f*cking chance I’m going to use them.

In agreement with you, but they can't alter a metered fare.

The means of increasing a fare are by choosing a route with plenty of traffic lights, and becoming extremely 'safety conscious' and driving well within speed limits to hit red lights.

I'm not going to go into details here, but cab operators/drivers I knew, jokingly admitted all this. The comment was that you can always tell an empty cab by its rapid speed.

 

[Whitechapel]

In agreement with you, but they can't alter a metered fare.

The means of increasing a fare are by choosing a route with plenty of traffic lights, and becoming extremely 'safety conscious' and driving well within speed limits to hit red lights.

I'm not going to go into details here, but cab operators/drivers I knew, jokingly admitted all this. The comment was that you can always tell an empty cab by its rapid speed.

Ah fair enough, didn’t realise that. I think In a way purposefully driving in a way that’ll help the price creep up is even worse. At least if he’d had the fiddle with the meter I’d have got home quicker

 

[The Large One]

After the Spurs game I went for a couple of beers in Brighton and planned to get the train home. Got to the station only to find that the 12:05 train was now a bus replacement so decided to get a cab back with some mates. It was the first time in a while I had got a B&H cab, as the last time I used one our driver charged a fixed fee to Shoreham and then stopped on the Shoreham boarder and tried to demand more money to drive us in to the middle of Shoreham so I had done my best to avoid them.

From Brighton station to just past Hove Cementry the cab had reached £40. £40 for a journey that is less than 4 miles. Like **** was I sitting in there all the way to Lancing. Got out, told him he was taking the piss and then ordered an Uber. The last 8 miles home in an Uber cost me £16.

I don’t use Uber solely because it’s cheaper. If I’m out in Worthing I’ll order an Arrow cab. But when my experiences with Brighton & Hove cabs boils down to “this punter has had a couple of pints so I’ll stick the fare up and hope he doesn’t realise” then there’s no f*cking chance I’m going to use them.

It's £25 from Brighton to Lancing in a Brighton taxi with four blokes.

By my calculation, Brighton Station to 'just past Hove Cemetery' at that hour with four blokes in should come to about £10.40.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Was the data breach in Brighton and Hove?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/29/uber-security-breach-london-sadiq-khan-users

“Uber says 2.7 million in UK were affected by security breach”

I’m pretty certain Brighton was affected given the sheer volume of the UK data breach.

 

[amexer]

Great shame hope win appeal. Always had very good service .App and paying by card also good. Knowing they were going to discuss why on earth didnt councilors try service

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

If you not used UBER or AirBNB then how do you know you don't like it ? You might love it . Uber in Brighton was / is great . Its half the price sometimes - half the price of a normal rip off taxi . Airbnb fantastic been using it for years and I rent rooms out in my house . Met wonderful people from all over the world . Its brilliant . Its also 10 years old so its hardly "new - fangled " . Its called change and progress my friend .
If it really bothers you take a ride on the Volks railway - thats still running . It only goes to one place though . However I expect that would probably suit you down to the ground .

change is ok as long as no one's being mugged off
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

This doesn't just happen in Brighton. I travel the country a lot for work and I can count with one hand the number of taxis which have let me pay by card. It's insanely archaic. Who carries cash anymore?

people that like real money , I mean plastic fantastic isn't the be all and end all, CASH SPEAKS MOST OF THE TIME
regards
DR

 

[SeagullSarge]

Uber Brighton & Hove Operator Licence Refusal - GMB Brighton & Hove Taxi Section Press Statement:

The GMB Brighton & Hove Taxi Section is very pleased that following the six hour Public Hearing of the 2018 Brighton & Hove Uber Operators Licence renewal application the council has refused to grant a renewal.

At the time of writing this we do not have the full details of reasons for refusal but we imagine that all the concerns raised by the trade were taken into full consideration.

Copies of all documents and the audio of the ‘Public Hearing’ can be accessed at www.bhtaxinews.cab

However.... it is a shame that Uber.. the multi-billion dollar disruptive technology company could not act in a responsible way to work in the city alongside the existing companies in a fair and competitive manner without encouraging taxi and private hire drivers from hundreds of miles away to predominantly work in the city... away from their respective Enforcement Officers which is an important requirement for public safety.

The only contribution Uber ever made to the trade was an attempt to remove the local ‘Knowledge Test’ which failed despite being presented by the Uber solicitors that “Satellite Navigation is better".

Uber also gave instructions to drivers to remove licence plates and council livery making these cars completely unidentifiable to the public which was a step back to pre-1976 before the ‘Local Government Miscellaneous Act 1976’ was put in place.

Our own council ‘Enforcement Officers’ have worked tirelessly having to deal with a considerable amount of complaints made by the local trade of infringements caused by these uncontrollable ‘out-of-town’ drivers who think nothing of illegally sitting on Brighton & Hove taxi ranks and sleeping in their vehicles night-in and night-out on the seafront and driving in the wrong direction in one way systems.... all under the watch of Uber.

The trade has had to act as the ‘eyes and ears’ to protect the public and we would like to thank our Enforcement Officers for their time and patience in dealing with this.

However....Uber threatened at the ‘Public Hearing’ that even if it lost its Operators Licence it will continue to operate in the city.
This means that Brighton & Hove will still be flooded with taxi and private hire drivers from Lewes.. Portsmouth.. Southampton ....Chichester ...Reigate & Banstead.. Wolverhampton... Sefton.. New Forest.... and many other areas who do not comply with the strict licensing conditions as laid down in the ‘Brighton & Hove City Council Blue Book - Conditions of Licensing for Taxi & Private Hire Drivers, Vehicles and Operators’ which is there for the protection of the public.

One of these conditions of licensing is compulsory CCTV which is much scorned on by Uber.

Additionally there is the responsibility for the provision of ‘Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles’ (WAV’S) that despite Uber having access to the hundreds of ‘out-of-town’ taxi and private hire vehicles that it encourages to predominantly work in the city ...not one of them is WAV compliant... nor is there any facility on its App to book one.

We have no doubt that Uber will appeal the decision and we hope that Brighton & Hove City Council will be robust with any defence.
The GMB would like to express our thanks to the cross party ‘Licensing Panel’ members... Councillor Jackie O’Quinn .. Councillor Lizzie Deane and Councillor Lynda Hyde and all the council officers who were involved in making the decision.

We believe that the trade was absolutely correct in calling for the renewal to be held at a ‘Public Hearing’ and not behind closed doors... where the trade could make direct presentations and all parties could be thoroughly questioned by the council. We strongly believe that without the call for the ‘Public Hearing’ the outcome would have been very different.

We would like to thank all the local councillors who supported this and with special thanks to Councillor Lee Wares who wrote to the council specifically expressing his own support for a Public Hearing.
We would also like to thank Caroline Lucas MP for her continuous support for the local trade along with Peter Kyle MP and Lloyd Russel-Moyle MP.

The GMB would also like to thank fellow trade reps for their continuous hard work and contribution to the ‘Public Hearing’ on Monday April 23 2018 which has shown that by working together great achievements can be made.

We now hope that other licensing authorities that either already license Uber as an Operator....or who may receive such an application... will look to Brighton & Hove City Council for guidance and take appropriate similar action as the local trades in those areas are having to deal with exactly the same issues as in Brighton & Hove,.

The next major issue is to change Legislation that brought chaos to the trade across the UK with uncontrollable ‘Cross-Border Hiring’ following the disastrous ‘Deregulation Act 2015’ and the work on this continues.

The Disrupter has been Disrupted.....

Urgh, I know this will upset people on here but these unions really need to get a grip on reality. We do not live in the 1970's, technology exists and people will use it anyway they can to make money, help people and god forbid, create a product which disrupts the norm. All unions seek to do now is take from the consumer and make unrealistic demands from companies..

The only contribution Uber ever made to the trade was an attempt to remove the local ‘Knowledge Test’ which failed despite being presented by the Uber solicitors that “Satellite Navigation is better". - Local knowledge is good but I'm sorry, no matter how good a drivers knowledge of an area is they do not have real time knowledge of traffic across every road in B&H. Sat Nav is a very good resource and should be used.

Our own council ‘Enforcement Officers’ have worked tirelessly having to deal with a considerable amount of complaints made by the local trade of infringements caused by these uncontrollable ‘out-of-town’ drivers who think nothing of illegally sitting on Brighton & Hove taxi ranks and sleeping in their vehicles night-in and night-out on the seafront and driving in the wrong direction in one way systems.... all under the watch of Uber. - I have lost count at the amount of times I have seen B&H taxi's parked illegally, double parked, pulling over without warning and picking up passengers in dangerous places. Referring to drivers and 'out-of-town' like some kind of western sherif just goes to show how insular and overly negatives unions are.

One of these conditions of licensing is compulsory CCTV which is much scorned on by Uber. - CCTV is flawed, it can be deleted by the driver and cameras can be deactivated. Uber tracks realtime, allows a passenger to report a driver to the police and alerts authorities if the driver goes too far off piste.

Additionally there is the responsibility for the provision of ‘Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles’ (WAV’S) that despite Uber having access to the hundreds of ‘out-of-town’ taxi and private hire vehicles that it encourages to predominantly work in the city ...not one of them is WAV compliant... nor is there any facility on its App to book one. - I quote from the Argus report yesterday "The company has committed to having 20 wheelchair accessible vehicles by the time it has 100 drivers here. It currently has 62." In addition the Uber app allows you to get Uber Assist for people with mobility issues.

I wish Councils and Unions would just back off and let people make their own decisions on what to use, if you want to use Uber use Uber, if you want a B&H taxi call one.