Two weeks to go - how are you voting in the EU referendum? - Leave or Remain?

[Billy the Fish]

I'm voting leave, but my views aren't really reflected by the leave campaign - I'm all for freedom of movement and don't expect an out vote will make any difference to immigration at all.

I'm voting out on moral grounds, the Lisbon treaty was a step too far and it created an autocratic entity that will steamroll towards a united states of Europe regardless of whether it's inhabitants want it or not. I see the EU as a dilution of democracy, we don't need another level of government on top of what we already have.

How can anyone support the EU after what is happening in Greece? People who say it's better to influence from the inside are wrong, why is anyone on the inside going to change the status quo when they are on the gravy train? The EU is very much like FIFA in that regard.

 

[ManOfSussex]

We haven't got any influence now,so what's going to change?

Who's going to join The EU in the future? We wont have a veto. We will still have free movement though. We have more influence in the EU as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, than out of it in The EEA as The United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Us leaving is going to help that figure how? We should stay and help them.

Who was arguing our leaving would help them? I was pointing out that describing the EU as not perfect doesn't quite reflect the reality of the grim situation Greece and other countries find themselves in all because of the desire to pursue ever closer union. We are excluded from Eurozone policy making how do you propose helping them if we stay in?

Would be better if the old corrupt government had not cooked the books and blown all the money on military hardware.

It would and it would have been better if the EU hadn't let them join knowing they didn't meet the criteria or continue to turn a blind eye to their continual flouting of the rules or allowing Germany and France to go unpunished when they broke the same rules further encouraging Greece to do the same.

 

[dingodan]

Which I don't consider being a member of The EU does to us.

It's as good an analogy as "jumping and falling in the dark" is for leaving.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Which they were blackmailed into buying from who?

Ohh give me the details, what documents/recordings/films do you have on this blackmail, this is scandalous and could bring down the German, French, British and USA governments, all of whom sold arms to Greece, show us the dirt, please, I would love to expose this shocking industry.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

It would and it would have been better if the EU hadn't let them join knowing they didn't meet the criteria or continue to turn a blind eye to their continual flouting of the rules or allowing Germany and France to go unpunished when they broke the same rules further encouraging Greece to do the same.

I am sure if the fraud had been known they would not have got near the EU, still I am glad to have them in and think we should do more to help them recover. Our friends out there have had a torrid time of it.

 

[ManOfSussex]

It's as good an analogy as "jumping and falling in the dark" is for leaving.

I take your point. The world and the future is as uncertain and insecure as it ever has been. Okay, leaving The EU might turn out to be the utopia some people dream it will be. I don't see how weakening ourselves and the western world makes the future more certain and secure. What result would Vladimir Putin like in the referendum?

 

[Spicy]

Only an idiot would vote Leave.

And your reasons are?? I voted leave, always intended to, already sent off a postal vote.

 

[Sorrel]

And your reasons are?? I voted leave, always intended to, already sent off a postal vote.

Maybe we should have a "who has already voted, but now changed their minds" thread. There's enough other excuses for one.

 

[Billy the Fish]

One thing I really don't understand is people saying they would vote leave but don't want to align themselves with Boris, Gove, IDS, Farage etc etc

Those people mostly tossers and/or nutters, but they won't have anything to do with Brexit if the public votes for it. The terms of Brexit will be ridiculously complex, will be negotiated by the civil service and the process will take years to complete.

If you believe something to be right then have the courage of your convictions and stick with what you believe. Sarah Wollaston take note!!!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Maybe we should have a "who has already voted, but now changed their minds" thread. There's enough other excuses for one.

I'm looking forward to the 'How did you vote?' threads then the 'How did you wish you had now voted?' threads.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I am sure if the fraud had been known they would not have got near the EU, still I am glad to have them in and think we should do more to help them recover. Our friends out there have had a torrid time of it.

The same EU that can't have it's accounts signed off because they're so corrupt!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11209248/EU-auditors-refuse-to-sign-off-more-than-100billion-of-its-own-spending.html

 

[hans kraay fan club]

One thing I really don't understand is people saying they would vote leave but don't want to align themselves with Boris, Gove, IDS, Farage etc etc

Those people mostly tossers and/or nutters, but they won't have anything to do with Brexit if the public votes for it. The terms of Brexit will be ridiculously complex, will be negotiated by the civil service and the process will take years to complete.

All the same, you can understand people stopping to reflect on a point of view when they consider that it is shared by such a collection of freaks, thieves and scumbags.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I am sure if the fraud had been known they would not have got near the EU, still I am glad to have them in and think we should do more to help them recover. Our friends out there have had a torrid time of it.

I am sure the EU knew Greece didn't meet the criteria

http://voxeu.org/article/greek-debt-crisis-ecb-s-three-big-mistakes

One rule for Germany and France another for Greece.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087

Beautiful British common sense explains the Euro Crisis ...

 

[dingodan]

I take your point. The world and the future is as uncertain and insecure as it ever has been. Okay, leaving The EU might turn out to be the utopia some people dream it will be. I don't see how weakening ourselves and the western world makes the future more certain and secure. What result would Vladimir Putin like in the referendum?

Nobody is claiming a Utopia. I don't see any reason we would be weaker, the more we have control over our own affairs the stronger we are surely?

"Putin would like Brexit", first of all, that is a fallacious argument, do you really believe that people should vote based on what they think Putin would like least? In truth I think Putin would probably prefer us to remain and the European project to continue. Russia has a history of empire and has seen the consequences of a massive, top-down USSR. It eventually leads to massive poverty and ends in collapse, first of the economy, then social collapse and chaos. You only have to look at the Eurozone crisis and massive unemployment in Southern Europe to see the parallels. But I'm not going to argue that you should decide to leave because Putin would like to see us to stay. I think basing this decision on what Putin will think is incredibly misguided.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

We haven't got any influence now,so what's going to change?

Seat on the commission, 73 elected MEP's, One sits on the Bureau, Three are committee chairs and two are group leaders, permanent seat on the committee just to name a few who have a say.

Sadly Farage turns up for so few of the committees he has been appointed too and happily take the money for doing little, he even has failed to turn up and vote on fishing quotas that would increased British Fishermans catches.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I'm looking forward to the 'How did you vote?' threads then the 'How did you wish you had now voted?' threads.

Or the " I didn't put my name to any of it" thread..

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Billy the Fish]

All the same, you can understand people stopping to reflect on a point of view when they consider that it is shared by such a collection of freaks, thieves and scumbags.

Of course!!! I also understand why people are voting stay and I'm certainly not going to rubbish anyone else's view, it's a shame that so many on both sides hijack the debate into a slanging math.

I do wonder if the leave campaign would've done any better if they hadn't played the immigration card from the beginning. Probably not, unfortunately.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

I am sure the EU knew Greece didn't meet the criteria

Brilliant stuff, he is playing The De La War next February, loved it when he stood against Farage in the last election, his manifesto was superb.

 

[pb21]

I don't see any reason we would be weaker, the more we have control over our own affairs the stronger we are surely?

It depends on how big the affairs are surely?

We could have 100% control of our own, relatively small national affairs, or a proportion of control, say 20%, of much larger European affairs, whilst at the same time still having some control of our own affairs.