TWO MORE SITES added to the list of alternatives to Falmer

[Easy 10]

That's easy: he lived nearby

I must say that I'm not totally happy about this ganging up on Perseus, it looks a bit like victimisation. Yes, he droned about Pende and yes, he's a grade one twit but I don't think there was any evidence that he was actually working with the likes of FPC and Baker. He was just putting ideas into their head.

Obviously, that was less than helpful but other people (BG) were talking about the cement works without attracting anything like the malice. And there were plenty of people on here, still talking about Waterhall, some time after the club had put all its eggs in the Falmer. These were less than helpful actions too but don't attract the odium that Perseus gets.

I'd like to hear it from him though.

I'm not ganging up, just interested to hear his justification, and whether 12 years on, he has reconsidered his position on the matter.

 

[perseus]

Never mind the guff about Stephens etc, that's irrelevant to this thread and (as usual) just serves to cloud the issue. What I'm curious about, with your persistant talking up of Pende as a viable alternative at the time, is this:



So you're acknowledging spiralling costs whilst talking about the notion of putting in a north-south relief road, and also acknowledging the fact that there's not a cat in hells chance of ever getting a railway station built there. Your numbers look plucked from the sky to me as well, but for arguments sake lets go with them.

So given that Falmer is served by (a) a major dual carriageway and (b) already has a railway station on site, what exactly was your reasoning for persistently championing Pende over Falmer ? Genuine question.

Genuine question. because was year 2004 or before the original Planning Permission was submitted or the Falmer was quite so clear cut a choice. . It was noticed by me that was were no grounds for refusal (proven by the Training Ground application) so getting Planning Permission would be relatively straightforward and much quicker. Also there was room for a car park so no park 'n ride. Bolton built a railway station for their stadium and there had already previously been a railway station at Shoreham Airport. Railways were in public ownership.

As time went by the advantages of Pende (easier Planning Permission, no National Park Authority, no Lewes Council and a supportive Adur Council), the advantages receded and the longer term planning process, and most of all the changing football finances with the TV money made Falmer a much clearer first choice. My original plan envisaged building the training complex next to the stadium. Land was planning zoned for sports and recreation. Back at in 2004 or earlier, without the huge TV money, ancillary development was the way to offset the cost of building stadia. That would have been possible at Pende. Hotel already there.

Hindsight says that Falmer was a much greater success than the optimists anticipated (as the initial number of seats indicated). I think this was because it is actually nearer for lots of fans that did not even go to the Goldstone (lots because they were not even born). I don't think Falmer is difficult to get to. Just Southern Rail is bloody useless.





As time went by it was just Plan B.

 

[Easy 10]

Genuine question. because was year 2004 or before the original Planning Permission was submitted or the Falmer was quite so clear cut a choice. . It was noticed by me that was were no grounds for refusal (proven by the Training Ground application) so getting Planning Permission would be relatively straightforward and much quicker. Also there was room for a car park so no park 'n ride. Bolton built a railway station for their stadium and there had already previously been a railway station at Shoreham Airport. Railways were in public ownership.

As time went by the advantages of Pende (easier Planning Permission, no National Park Authority, no Lewes Council and a supportive Adur Council), the advantages receded and the longer term planning process, and most of all the changing football finances with the TV money made Falmer a much clearer first choice. My original plan envisaged building the training complex next to the stadium. Land was planning zoned for sports and recreation. Back at in 2004 or earlier, without the huge TV money, ancillary development was the way to offset the cost of building stadia. That would have been possible at Pende. Hotel already there.

Hindsight says that Falmer was a much greater success than the optimists anticipated (as the initial number of seats indicated). I think this was because it is actually nearer for lots of fans that did not even go to the Goldstone (lots because they were not even born). I don't think Falmer is difficult to get to. Just Southern Rail is bloody useless.





As time went by it was just Plan B.

But having weighed up the options and analysed the alternatives, Falmer was the Clubs choice, primarily because the transport infrastructure was already largely in place there. NONE of that was in Pende. The fact that there was room for a car park next to a stadium at Pende is neither here nor there, because there is absolutely no way the road infrastructure around that area would have been able to cope with the matchday traffic (and this would also fly in the face of the councils sustainable modes of transport models).

And yes, we got permission for a training ground there, but that does not prove that it would have been equally as straightforward as getting permission for a 22k stadium there - the two are entirely different projects with completely different parameters to consider.

These issues did not become apparent “as time went by” – they were apparent from the outset, which is why the club and fans threw their weight behind the campaign for Falmer. The changing football finances and TV money that came about during this period that you mention is also a complete irrelevance, as we were not in the Premier League, nor were we even close to being there, so what did that have to do with anything ??

Your arguments still make zero sense, so I still have no idea why you were so determined to champion Pende, other than (as Gwylan said) the fact that it would have been more convenient for you personally. That wasn’t really the reason….was it ?

 

[British Bulldog]

I remember Percy poking his nose in on the training ground debate but the good thing was neither side had a chuffing clue what he was on about or which side he was on. The word Pende was still high on his agenda though.

 

[perseus]

Bigger and better was the reason. 100 acres. Gives the architect a bigger and better options to build and extend into a multiple sports complex which I saw as a the future to get ahead of our competitors. Bigger than Southampton, I wanted.

Back then Bolton Reebok had just been built with a new railway station and the trains worked back then under public ownership. I still remembered the crushes and huge crowds for Albion against Rochdale and Chelsea in the sixties and early seventies.

I didn't know that Falmer was going to be big enough for near 30,000. I suspected that it would be a bit bigger than 23,000 though. I would have liked 30,000 expandable to 36,748. I expected 50% of people to be addicted to their cars, despite the bottleneck of getting out of a big car park. I envisaged the German model of shipping fans by special trains (being a bit naive in England). .

All a balance between realism (including politics) and dreams. TV money has escalated. In 1997 the Arsenal turnover was £30 million. Now it is over £300 million. Football finances have changed of the club is in the Premier League.

NB: Even with the trains working as well as Southern Rail can do, it is just as quick as park 'n ride to Shoreham. Trouble is they don't work well half the time.

Crowds bigger than I anticipated for Falmer. This I put down to be being a more convenient location for a new lot of fans. Much better than the Goldstone for fans. Not for me, but I prefer Falmer to the Goldstone. I think the gates prove it Falmer was the best choice. Don't want to be like Leeds in a half filled stadium.

How do people like park 'n ride? I don't care for it myself. I prefer the trains. I'd sooner park near a railway station and get the train in.

As people are addicted to their cars (need them to get to work) I'm not overly impressed by the transport policies. I always saw a railway station to be essential, unlike Reading (not impressed by their location) and Southampton.

Tip: if you think we are going to get promoted (why not?) get your season ticket now to avoid a scramble for a seat in the Premier League. .

 

[British Bulldog]

I would have liked 30,000 expandable to 36,748.

So you wanted a ground that was going to beat our record crowd by 1 fan? You really are nutty Percy.

 

[Gwylan]

I always saw a railway station to be essential,[/URL].

But, as Easy points out, there already was a station at Falmer. Why build another one?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Point of order, the original planning permission for Falmer, was July 2002, and passed by Brighton council 11 votes to 1. It was called in by the government just one month later.
Anything that happened in 2004, was two years after the original permission.

 

[Easy 10]

Bigger and better was the reason. 100 acres. Gives the architect a bigger and better options to build and extend into a multiple sports complex which I saw as a the future to get ahead of our competitors. Bigger than Southampton, I wanted.

Back then Bolton Reebok had just been built with a new railway station and the trains worked back then under public ownership. I still remembered the crushes and huge crowds for Albion against Rochdale and Chelsea in the sixties and early seventies.

I didn't know that Falmer was going to be big enough for near 30,000. I suspected that it would be a bit bigger than 23,000 though. I would have liked 30,000 expandable to 36,748. I expected 50% of people to be addicted to their cars, despite the bottleneck of getting out of a big car park. I envisaged the German model of shipping fans by special trains (being a bit naive in England). .

All a balance between realism (including politics) and dreams. TV money has escalated. In 1997 the Arsenal turnover was £30 million. Now it is over £300 million. Football finances have changed of the club is in the Premier League.

NB: Even with the trains working as well as Southern Rail can do, it is just as quick as park 'n ride to Shoreham. Trouble is they don't work well half the time.

Crowds bigger than I anticipated for Falmer. This I put down to be being a more convenient location for a new lot of fans. Much better than the Goldstone for fans. Not for me, but I prefer Falmer to the Goldstone. I think the gates prove it Falmer was the best choice. Don't want to be like Leeds in a half filled stadium.

How do people like park 'n ride? I don't care for it myself. I prefer the trains. I'd sooner park near a railway station and get the train in.

As people are addicted to their cars (need them to get to work) I'm not overly impressed by the transport policies. I always saw a railway station to be essential, unlike Reading (not impressed by their location) and Southampton.

Tip: if you think we are going to get promoted (why not?) get your season ticket now to avoid a scramble for a seat in the Premier League. .

So now, with the benfit of hindsight, taking into account what the club has achieved at Falmer with the success of that magnificent stadium (perfect capacity for us) as well as the superb training ground facility at Lancing, are you prepared to admit that your views back then were probably somewhat...misguided ? Or outright WRONG ?

 

[perseus]

So now, with the benfit of hindsight, taking into account what the club has achieved at Falmer with the success of that magnificent stadium (perfect capacity for us) as well as the superb training ground facility at Lancing, are you prepared to admit that your views back then were probably somewhat...misguided ? Or outright WRONG ?

When the new seats were installed to increase the capacity to 30,250 (about the current real capacity) I thought we were getting somewhere at long last. Helped by being in with a chance of promotion.

That's my feelings about it. Then I thought we were almost ready for the top flight. Then Speroni tipped Barnes header on to the bar. Width of the post.

 

[Easy 10]

When the new seats were installed to increase the capacity to 30,250 (about the current real capacity) I thought we were getting somewhere at long last. Helped by being in with a chance of promotion.

That's my feelings about it. Then I thought we were almost ready for the top flight. Then Speroni tipped Barnes header on to the bar. Width of the post.

I swear if I asked you your favourite colour, you'd tell me the price of fish in Dublin.

 

[Stat Brother]

I'm surprised NSC has let a sentence like:-

"My original plan envisaged..."

slip under the radar.

 

[GT49er]

Wasn't around on here in those days to join in the fun, and now that we've got Falmer, I'm delighted we've got a thirty thousand seater capacity stadium that is doing an excellent job for the club.
However, from afar I knew the Beeding Cement works site back then - and the idea of a unique stadium, set right back into the hillside with banked tiers of seats soaring up the cliff-sides, a couple of hundred yards of branch line relaid, and a dedicated purpose built club station filled me with awe and enthusiasm at the time. I'm sure that in reality it wasn't that simple, or do-able - but wow! It seemed a fabulous idea to me!
Just saying, like. Now time to move on .............. onwards and upwards! UTA!

 

[spence]

Won't Shoreham Airport be a bit dangerous with all those planes landing - that gets that one out of the way and it didn't cost a penny

(i'm trying to lighten the mood a bit before I break something)

Spooky. Did you actually remember writing this?

 

[Gazwag]

Spooky. Did you actually remember writing this?

Nope can't even remember the context of the post.

 

[Puppet Master]

Perseus, you're a knob.

 

[Beach Hut]

Back then Bolton Reebok had just been built with a new railway station and the trains worked back then under public ownership.

First competitive game September 1997, Northern Rail franchise started March 1997, another "fact" that is wrong

 

[Simster]

When the new seats were installed to increase the capacity to 30,250 (about the current real capacity) I thought we were getting somewhere at long last. Helped by being in with a chance of promotion.

That's my feelings about it. Then I thought we were almost ready for the top flight. Then Speroni tipped Barnes header on to the bar. Width of the post.

Christ you really are a tiresome Mr Irrelevant dildo. Aren't you man enough to admit you were completely WRONG?

 

[moggy]

some old usernames on this thread.

What happened to Marc ?

B.M.F ?

Tedebear ?

B.M.F. Met a girl online and is now married and living in USA where she comes from. Still follows the Albion from afar

 

[Brovion]

Wasn't around on here in those days to join in the fun, and now that we've got Falmer, I'm delighted we've got a thirty thousand seater capacity stadium that is doing an excellent job for the club.
However, from afar I knew the Beeding Cement works site back then - and the idea of a unique stadium, set right back into the hillside with banked tiers of seats soaring up the cliff-sides, a couple of hundred yards of branch line relaid, and a dedicated purpose built club station filled me with awe and enthusiasm at the time. I'm sure that in reality it wasn't that simple, or do-able - but wow! It seemed a fabulous idea to me!
Just saying, like. Now time to move on .............. onwards and upwards! UTA!

Well it was already a big ready-made hole in the ground, so no excavation, and it was an eyesore that needed tidying up, so putting a football ground there seemed ideal. However it only took a few seconds of consideration to realise that it was totally unsuitable. The site would have cost millions to clear (as it's riddled with asbestos), before we even started building. There is virtually no access as it's only served by a single country lane and a dismantled railway. Rebuilding the railway (nearly four miles not a few hundred yards) would have added even more - plus the ongoing maintenance as it would be the football club's private branch used only on match days. That's before you got the difficulty of running a matchday service with all the fans going one-way. (Where would they change to separate between East and West?)

You say you were viewing it from afar so you probably didn't realise the problems. FPC etc were relying on people like you to say "Hey that sounds good!"so they could muddy the waters. Believe me no fully sentient person in Sussex thought it was remotely feasible.

Ancient history as you say, but re-reading this thread makes me remember just how much effort we had to put in to getting the stadium. It was battle after battle after battle, and actually I don't think it should be forgotten.