Two ISIS suicide attacks on Tehran

[Triggaaar]

I wouldn't go so far as empathy, but at least TRYING to understand why they do what they do – and what their ACTUAL end game is

They've told us what the end game is. It's for every human on earth to be a Muslim.

I'm by no means anti-war, but I don't really get how using violence to counteract violence is ever going to work.

I'm by no means pro-war, but isn't that how it generally works? That's how people like Napoleon and Hitler were stopped.

 

[Wilko]

I'm no apologist for terrorists, but I think Cowfold Seagull is correct.

It's a tiny minority of Sunni Muslims advocating violence, led by some manipulative and charismatic (not to us of course) fundamentalist shite-stirrers, who cherry pick and magnify out of context a few lines from the Koran.

I agree that it is only a tiny fraction of a huge faith, the point was that no religion advocates killing though.......

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone"

 

[Bladders]

Well the current approach isn't exactly working!

I wouldn't go so far as empathy, but at least TRYING to understand why they do what they do – and what their ACTUAL end game is – as well as attempting to establish some form of communication has got to be worth a go

I doubt it will ever happen, because those in charge seem keen to play the short game and try and get quick wins. I'm by no means anti-war, but I don't really get how using violence to counteract violence is ever going to work. You won't eradicate ISIS – they are everywhere and even if you kill off the top dogs, there are PLENTY more out there willing to step up to the plate, fuelled by hatred for the West for taking out their fellow fighters and leaders.

Where have you been? In the toilet?

 

[Weststander]

Good start would be reading this

what they ideally want is Western troops on Syrian soil, best recruiting tool they could have. Killing other Muslims isn't as easy a sell.

It's a much older, wider picture and bigger story than that of ISIS.

Sections of the Islamic world have always felt bitter about the rise and dominance of liberalism and secularism in the West and it's spread to Turkey, Egypt, Algeria and elsewhere in the twentieth century. Following many centuries of the dominance of the Ottoman Empire, the increasing success and spread of the Western way of life over recent centuries, was unacceptable to some 'scholars' who channelled this anger into revisiting the basics of the Koran, where there reinterpreted certain passages as (Sunni) Islam being the superior religion and a call to an armed holy war. In this, they convinced themselves that the Ottoman Empire eventually failed because it wasn't Islamist enough, and had been too tolerant of women, other religions and secularism within its territories.

The rise in these beliefs occurred long before Al Qaeda, Taliban and ISIS had ever been dreamt up. Should ISIS and it aims die out eventually, the blinkered fascism of Sunni Islamic fundamentalist scholars will carry on, with the continued call to murder anyone not exactly like minded, wherever they are in the world.

 

[scamander]

It's a much older, wider picture and bigger story than that of ISIS.

Sections of the Islamic world have always felt bitter about the rise and dominance of liberalism and secularism in the West and it's spread to Turkey, Egypt, Algeria and elsewhere in the twentieth century. Following many centuries of the dominance of the Ottoman Empire, the increasing success and spread of the Western way of life over recent centuries, was unacceptable to some 'scholars' who channelled this anger into revisiting the basics of the Koran, where there reinterpreted certain passages as (Sunni) Islam being the superior religion and a call to an armed holy war. In this, they convinced themselves that the Ottoman Empire eventually failed because it wasn't Islamist enough, and had been too tolerant of women, other religions and secularism within its territories.

The rise in these beliefs occurred long before Al Qaeda, Taliban and ISIS had ever been dreamt up. Should ISIS and it aims die out eventually, the blinkered fascism of Sunni Islamic fundamentalist scholars will carry on, with the continued call to murder anyone not exactly like minded, wherever they are in the world.

Good post - my comment was in relation to ISIS though.

 

[Hamilton]

So, in some ways, it's all about religion. At least to some.

It's a bit like catholics attacking protestants. That would never happen now would it?

 

[DJ NOBO]

Some believe that understanding, empathy and effective communication will sort this type of issue out.

Lol

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They've told us what the end game is. It's for every human on earth to be a Muslim.

It's a much older, wider picture and bigger story than that of ISIS.

Sections of the Islamic world have always felt bitter about the rise and dominance of liberalism and secularism in the West and it's spread to Turkey, Egypt, Algeria and elsewhere in the twentieth century. Following many centuries of the dominance of the Ottoman Empire, the increasing success and spread of the Western way of life over recent centuries, was unacceptable to some 'scholars' who channelled this anger into revisiting the basics of the Koran, where there reinterpreted certain passages as (Sunni) Islam being the superior religion and a call to an armed holy war. In this, they convinced themselves that the Ottoman Empire eventually failed because it wasn't Islamist enough, and had been too tolerant of women, other religions and secularism within its territories.

The rise in these beliefs occurred long before Al Qaeda, Taliban and ISIS had ever been dreamt up. Should ISIS and it aims die out eventually, the blinkered fascism of Sunni Islamic fundamentalist scholars will carry on, with the continued call to murder anyone not exactly like minded, wherever they are in the world.

Their aim is world domination and make their capital city Jerusalem.

 

[Machiavelli]

No 'religion' advocates killing. End of.

I don't know what the scare quotes are doing there, but I think you'll find in the three core texts of Western religion that there are passages that do just that.

 

[Machiavelli]

Sadly I think that is incorrect. The Quran does advocate killing.

As does the Bible, and the Torah.

 

[Triggaaar]

As does the Bible, and the Torah.

What does the Bible say (and where)?

 

[symyjym]

As does the Bible, and the Torah.

The Torah does. Not sure the New Testament does though?

 

[spence]

The Torah does. Not sure the New Testament does though?

It doesn't

 

[Papa Lazarou]

What does the Bible say (and where)?

Doesn't Leviticus advocate killing for certain 'crimes'?

 

[Triggaaar]

Doesn't Leviticus advocate killing for certain 'crimes'?

I wasn't questioning it as in disagreeing, I just wanted to see what it says. I've taken to reading the Bible, but it's quite big and I've lots to learn.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

They've told us what the end game is. It's for every human on earth to be a Muslim.

Unless I have misunderstood or mis-remembered, their scriptures foretell that this ultimate domination will come about as the result of an apocalyptic holy war. Surely the singular aim of the current ISIS / jihadist terrorism campaign in the West, is encourage retaliation, and ultimately suck us into that war?

 

[Triggaaar]

Unless I have misunderstood or mis-remembered, their scriptures foretell that this ultimate domination will come about as the result of an apocalyptic holy war. Surely the singular aim of the current ISIS / jihadist terrorism campaign in the West, is encourage retaliation, and ultimately suck us into that war?

I don't know if you're joking or not. The terrorist are killing all over the globe, not just the West. And I wouldn't think they'd want a apocalyptic was just yet, as it's quite clear they'd lose.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I don't know if you're joking or not. The terrorist are killing all over the globe, not just the West. And I wouldn't think they'd want a apocalyptic was just yet, as it's quite clear they'd lose.

Not joking at all Have I got that part wrong? ('the West' was a poor description, granted. Much wider than that, of course).

On your last sentence - You are conferring rationale and logic there, that I'm not convinced is due.

 

[Triggaaar]

Not joking at all Have I got that part wrong?

No that's cool, just checking.

On your last sentence - You are conferring rationale and logic there, that I'm not convinced is due.

But you're suggesting the current terrorism campaign worldwide is more than just killing non believers, and is part of a bigger (albeit poorly thought out) plan.

I'm not sure which one of us is giving them more credit than they deserve.

 

[whitelion]

Not joking at all Have I got that part wrong? ('the West' was a poor description, granted. Much wider than that, of course).

On your last sentence - You are conferring rationale and logic there, that I'm not convinced is due.

I think you're largely correct with your description of the 'west' which isn't a geographical description but those countries with western values.