[Misc] Twelve months paid leave for the male menopause

[wellquickwoody]

Following on from the political axis thread seeing me as a left of centre, established libertarian, thought I would show my extreme right tendancies by showing my contempt for this kind twaddle displayed by the public sector. From The Times (copy and paste due to paywall)………

Damn! Will not paste, no doubt locked in some way.

Anyway, East Midlands Ambulance Trust are implementing a policy that could offer up to 12 months paid leave for male workers undergoing the menopause. Just amazing, especially if you can get it. Wonder if any transgender folk would be able to apply for the same in some way?

Original link to follow, but it is protected by a paywall (also available from other news outlets) https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ar-of-paid-leave-for-male-menopause-q68tgk73z

 

[Curious Orange]

If you're having problems with your mental health go and see your GP.

The 'male menopause'

Read about "male menopause", where some men develop depression, loss of sex drive, erectile dysfunction and other physical and emotional symptoms when they reach their late 40s to early 50s.

www.nhs.uk

 

[The Clamp]

Rather belittling to call it the “male menopause”

It’s called the Andropause and is the drop in testosterone some men experience. Can cause a variety of symptoms.

Plus I very much doubt many work places will grant many men the year off.

Load of cobblers.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Following on from the political axis thread seeing me as a left of centre, established libertarian, thought I would show my extreme right tendancies by showing my contempt for this kind twaddle displayed by the public sector. From The Times (copy and paste due to paywall)………

Damn! Will not paste, no doubt locked in some way.

Anyway, East Midlands Ambulance Trust are implementing a policy that could offer up to 12 months paid leave for male workers undergoing the menopause. Just amazing, especially if you can get it. Wonder if any transgender folk would be able to apply for the same in some way?

Original link to follow, but it is protected by a paywall (also available from other news outlets) https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ar-of-paid-leave-for-male-menopause-q68tgk73z

Why do you care so much? Do you work for EMAT but don't qualify or something?

Live and let live, FFS!

 

[wellquickwoody]

Why do you care so much? Do you work for EMAT but don't qualify or something?

Live and let live, FFS!

Calm down dear

Just pointing out another reason the NHS doesn’t have the resources it needs. There are many, many others of course. Some justified, others less so. I would suggest that this falls into the latter category.

As for why I care? I just like to make some people aware that, yes, the current bunch of Tories are crap, but there other factors that can stretch the NHS to breaking point.

 

[The Clamp]

It doesn’t say all men are automatically entitled to it. Just some who suffer detrimental effects and illness from it.

Absolute non-story designed to enrage nitwits.

 

[Happy Exile]

Rather belittling to call it the “male menopause”

It’s called the Andropause and is the drop in testosterone some men experience. Can cause a variety of symptoms.

Plus I very much doubt many work places will grant many men the year off.

Load of cobblers.

Yep. And there are serious points around this and a national debate needed on the reasons for some of the poorer health outcomes men experience. It's a discussion that too often descends into "culture war" which benefits no-one and we end up either ignoring it or belittling it. I saw something recently about GB News arguing for a minister for men - that's actually not a horrendous idea, nor is it an original one and a lot of women have argued for it for a long time. I was at an event a few months ago around support for working fathers to be able to be active in the upbringing of their children and also have a career because supporting men with this is arguably a fast track to gender equality for all. It takes the focus of childcare off women so they can pursue a career too if they wish as well as objectively improving child development and men's mental health. Generally, organisations benefit too as companies with a good approach to flexible parenting / caring responsibilities are increasingly winning the battle to recruit the skills in demand. At that event a prominent Tory woman argued passionately and compassionately for something just like a minister for men so the health challenges men face are taken more seriously...but as soon as it's GB-newsified it enters the realm of combative discourse and polarisation which risks it being less likely unfortunately.

 

[Guinness Boy]

When’s International Men’s Day?

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Another International break coming up soon I believe ...

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It doesn’t say all men are automatically entitled to it. Just some who suffer detrimental effects and illness from it.

Absolute non-story designed to enrage nitwits.

Clearly works though.

 

[Yes Chef]

These....





... days

 

[Simster]

Calm down dear

Just pointing out another reason the NHS doesn’t have the resources it needs. There are many, many others of course. Some justified, others less so. I would suggest that this falls into the latter category.

As for why I care? I just like to make some people aware that, yes, the current bunch of Tories are crap, but there other factors that can stretch the NHS to breaking point.

The fact that this article mentions "up to 12 months" is not a reason the NHS doesn't have the funding it needs. How many people do you honestly believe are going to take 12 months off for this?

The NHS suffers for a variety of reasons - from being a political football, it suffers from lack of funding in some areas, and also gross managerial inefficiency and incompetence.

Finally, any political compass that puts you remotely left is clearly not working very well. You're basically the Daily Express on here and always have been.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Calm down dear

Just pointing out another reason the NHS doesn’t have the resources it needs. There are many, many others of course. Some justified, others less so. I would suggest that this falls into the latter category.

As for why I care? I just like to make some people aware that, yes, the current bunch of Tories are crap, but there other factors that can stretch the NHS to breaking point.

Perfectly calm, it just baffles me how people start frothing at the gash about stuff that has zero impact on their lives.

As for the NHS not having the resources it needs. I'm guessing that anyone going on leave would be covered by someone else, so there would be no drop-off.

And it is really being stretched to 'breaking point'? I'm not so sure. We've had a LOT of dealings with the NHS over the years and – specifically in the past 18 months, I see mis-management, bureaucracy and a general laziness/apathy from a growing number of staff, which means that it falls to the patient (or, in our cases, parents of the patient) to do the simple jobs that should be done by SOME nurses, consultants and doctors.

For example, when you challenge a senior consultant – who has previously misdiagnosed your child – as to whether their condition could be a range of other ailments (or ask if it's worth investigating) and they dismiss it and you like you are a piece of shit who has DARED to stick up for the welfare of your nearest and dearest, but THEN 18 months down the line (the worst 18 months of your and your child's life) it turns out you were probably right to call the facker out, it kinda grates a bit. Even more so when basics such as urine samples and blood tests weren't completed and the parents are accused of making it all up, all the time you're stuck with a child that you don't know what to do with. I could go on. Because it's STILL ongoing...

NOW I need calming down!

 

[BadFish]

Calm down dear

Just pointing out another reason the NHS doesn’t have the resources it needs. There are many, many others of course. Some justified, others less so. I would suggest that this falls into the latter category.

As for why I care? I just like to make some people aware that, yes, the current bunch of Tories are crap, but there other factors that can stretch the NHS to breaking point.

I suspect that there is far more to this story than you and the Times are peddling and won't lose much sleep over it.

Good on the ambulance trust for supporting their male employees with what they are going through. It's about we addressed these kinds of issues for people.

Pity the government don't find the NHS properly so they can be looked after better.

 

[trueblue]

i suppose “employees of both sexes entitled to paid leave if too ill to work, just as they have been for decades” doesn’t make such a catchy headline.

 

[GT49er]

Following on from the political axis thread seeing me as a left of centre, established libertarian, thought I would show my extreme right tendancies by showing my contempt for this kind twaddle displayed by the public sector. From The Times (copy and paste due to paywall)………

Damn! Will not paste, no doubt locked in some way.

Anyway, East Midlands Ambulance Trust are implementing a policy that could offer up to 12 months paid leave for male workers undergoing the menopause. Just amazing, especially if you can get it. Wonder if any transgender folk would be able to apply for the same in some way?

Original link to follow, but it is protected by a paywall (also available from other news outlets) https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ar-of-paid-leave-for-male-menopause-q68tgk73z

Webpage Archive is all you need. An exert from the article:

"East Midlands Ambulance Service will take into account the experiences of male members of staff who are suffering from menopause-like symptoms such as mood swings and irritability, a lack of enthusiasm or energy, and finding it hard to sleep. Measures will also include providing extra uniforms and changing shift patterns.
Written guidance hosted online by the NHS employment body states that male staff should be provided with portable fans and heaters and be able to claim time off if they need it."

Like it or not, there is a whiff of snowflake! And frankly, the symptoms described are those suffered by thousands of men (and women) stuck in a job they absolutely hate, despairing as every Monday morning comes roumd again. Many suffer from this for years.

 

[Happy Exile]

Webpage Archive is all you need. An exert from the article:

"East Midlands Ambulance Service will take into account the experiences of male members of staff who are suffering from menopause-like symptoms such as mood swings and irritability, a lack of enthusiasm or energy, and finding it hard to sleep. Measures will also include providing extra uniforms and changing shift patterns.
Written guidance hosted online by the NHS employment body states that male staff should be provided with portable fans and heaters and be able to claim time off if they need it."

Like it or not, there is a whiff of snowflake! And frankly, the symptoms described are those suffered by thousands of men (and women) stuck in a job they absolutely hate, despairing as every Monday morning comes roumd again. Many suffer from this for years.

The article creates the whiff of snowflake because there's perhaps an agenda to do so. The actual guidance from East Midlands Ambulance Service (some of which I've pasted below) is a bit more than that and shows them to be a good employer and also not one that will enable people to take the p*ss. It's a chunk of text, but clears up any implication this is anything but a measured response to a genuine issue and one which supports employees and employers. From reading this and from what I know professionally I very much doubt anyone can just go and claim to be experiencing symptoms and get time off and if they do that's a failing of an individual manager, not of a policy. Yes, mood swings and irritability are symptoms, but those alone won't get anyone time off:

"Some of the severe complications associated with the andropause include an increased risk of cardiovascular problems and potentially osteoporosis better known as brittle bone.

If it is suspected that a male is encountering the andropause, he must seek advice from his GP who will then undertake a blood test to ascertain the levels of testosterone in the blood. The test will also rule out other factors that are also associated with low testosterone before giving the definitive outcome of possible andropause.

When managing attendance, consideration needs to be given to any issues related to andropause including the signs, symptoms and side effects of the treatment being received. The Line Manager will need to ensure that the male member of staff is not put at a detriment either by capability discussions or applying attendance sanctions outside of the reasonable adjustments agreed by the Trust, Occupational Health and the individual.

Line managers need to be supportive and maintain awareness so that men are not embarrassed to approach him/her to discuss how the andropause is affecting their health and role at work. The symptoms can interfere with everyday life and happiness, so it’s important that support is put in place so that the male is confident to look for medical advice to find the underlying cause and work out what can be done to resolve the issue. The male should not be placed in a position of embarrassment where they are expected to suffer in silence but to have the support offered to be able to identify the issue is real.

Remember that perception of the individual is a reality to them so do not dismiss what they are saying. Regular, informal conversations between manager and employee may enable discussion of changes in health, including issues relating to the andropause. It may be valuable simply to acknowledge this is a normal stage of life and that adjustments can easily be made. Such conversations can identify the support mechanisms such as PAM Assist that can help and encourage them to discuss any relevant health concerns also to ensure they consult with their GP.

General health and wellbeing discussions should naturally form part of the discussion in one to ones or the PDR process and managers should maintain confidentiality when addressing health information associated with the andropause.

Reasonable adjustments should be considered for all males that disclose that they are experiencing the andropause. Reasonable adjustments should be made on a case by case basis as no 2 cases will be identical. If in doubt, please refer to the HRA/Senior HR or HRBP for further advice and support. The advice from occupational health can also be used to assist implementing any changes or potential reasonable adjustment.

Flexible working – may be considered for staff experiencing debilitating symptoms. Shift patterns and start/finish times may be adjusted temporarily to enable staff to work productively. Flexibility should be given for staff needing to attend medical appointments associated with andropause symptoms and also for men seeking advice relating to the andropause. Phased returns may be supported for staff suffering with severe impairment. This will be particularly beneficial for those who are taking medication for the condition."

And so it goes on. I fail to see where there's an issue.

 

[GT49er]

The article creates the whiff of snowflake because there's perhaps an agenda to do so. The actual guidance from East Midlands Ambulance Service (some of which I've pasted below) is a bit more than that and shows them to be a good employer and also not one that will enable people to take the p*ss. It's a chunk of text, but clears up any implication this is anything but a measured response to a genuine issue and one which supports employees and employers. From reading this and from what I know professionally I very much doubt anyone can go and claim to be experiencing symptoms and get time off and if they do that's a failing of an individual manager, not of a policy:

"Some of the severe complications associated with the andropause include an increased risk of cardiovascular problems and potentially osteoporosis better known as brittle bone.

If it is suspected that a male is encountering the andropause, he must seek advice from his GP who will then undertake a blood test to ascertain the levels of testosterone in the blood. The test will also rule out other factors that are also associated with low testosterone before giving the definitive outcome of possible andropause.

When managing attendance, consideration needs to be given to any issues related to andropause including the signs, symptoms and side effects of the treatment being received. The Line Manager will need to ensure that the male member of staff is not put at a detriment either by capability discussions or applying attendance sanctions outside of the reasonable adjustments agreed by the Trust, Occupational Health and the individual.

Line managers need to be supportive and maintain awareness so that men are not embarrassed to approach him/her to discuss how the andropause is affecting their health and role at work. The symptoms can interfere with everyday life and happiness, so it’s important that support is put in place so that the male is confident to look for medical advice to find the underlying cause and work out what can be done to resolve the issue. The male should not be placed in a position of embarrassment where they are expected to suffer in silence but to have the support offered to be able to identify the issue is real.

Remember that perception of the individual is a reality to them so do not dismiss what they are saying. Regular, informal conversations between manager and employee may enable discussion of changes in health, including issues relating to the andropause. It may be valuable simply to acknowledge this is a normal stage of life and that adjustments can easily be made. Such conversations can identify the support mechanisms such as PAM Assist that can help and encourage them to discuss any relevant health concerns also to ensure they consult with their GP.

General health and wellbeing discussions should naturally form part of the discussion in one to ones or the PDR process and managers should maintain confidentiality when addressing health information associated with the andropause.

Reasonable adjustments should be considered for all males that disclose that they are experiencing the andropause. Reasonable adjustments should be made on a case by case basis as no 2 cases will be identical. If in doubt, please refer to the HRA/Senior HR or HRBP for further advice and support. The advice from occupational health can also be used to assist implementing any changes or potential reasonable adjustment.

Flexible working – may be considered for staff experiencing debilitating symptoms. Shift patterns and start/finish times may be adjusted temporarily to enable staff to work productively. Flexibility should be given for staff needing to attend medical appointments associated with andropause symptoms and also for men seeking advice relating to the andropause. Phased returns may be supported for staff suffering with severe impairment. This will be particularly beneficial for those who are taking medication for the condition."

And so it goes on. I fail to see where there's an issue.

So everybody whose job is making them miserable, tired and depressed should be able to take time off? Or having a mid-life crisis? Now that would be an issue, even for those who can;t see one.

 

[BadFish]

So everybody whose job is making them miserable, tired and depressed should be able to take time off? Or having a mid-life crisis? Now that would be an issue, even for those who can;t see one.

I've taken time off work for depression. Work was contributing to my condition. I and my family are very glad I did because if I hadn't there is no guarantee that I would be here now.

Not sure if in your eyes that makes me a snowflake as your posts suggest but thankfully that attitude is out of step with with current thinking around mental health.

I guess to answer your question, if work is adding to clinical depression then yes everybody experiencing this should be able to take time off.

I guess the thrust of your post is that people can take time off on whim, but of course it requires a visit to the doctors and a diagnosis of a serious condition.

I would suggest the midlife crisis jibe is a poor attempt to undermine the severity and seriousness of the depression you mentioned in the previous sentence and it does you a disservice.

 

[Happy Exile]

So everybody whose job is making them miserable, tired and depressed should be able to take time off? Or having a mid-life crisis? Now that would be an issue, even for those who can;t see one.

Why are you so keen to read it that way when that's not the case? If you have symptoms (which may include being miserable tired and depressed) the employer will support you in getting a GP diagnosis that there's a medical issue if you ask for one and if there is a medical issue then reasonable adjustments will be made to help manage both the symptoms of the verified medical issue and of any consequences of taking medication to help manage it. Whether that's andropause, depression or something else. That's just being a good human, let alone a good employer.