Trump

[Theatre of Trees]

His campaign were claiming they'd get 1 million people there and had a live telecast planned to an outside overspill area (that was hastily closed).

In the end, it looked like a Tuesday night away game at Rochdale.

Looks like loads of people RSVPed with little intention of going - lots of teenagers not old enough to vote used Tiktok to spread the word. Whilst neglible in terms of audience it has done three things:
1. Got the Trump campaign boasting beforehand about numbers
2. Wasted campaign funds setting up for these numbers
3. Skewed the Trump team's data collection of those who RSVPed as future voters.

 

[Bry Nylon]

I see from footage of the rally on the news tonight that the President of the United States of America also referred to Covid19 as "the Kung Flu virus."

Stay classy, Donald

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

I see from footage of the rally on the news tonight that the President of the United States of America also referred to Covid19 as "the Kung Flu virus."

Stay classy, Donald

Some people have a way with words

 

[vegster]

Looks like loads of people RSVPed with little intention of going - lots of teenagers not old enough to vote used Tiktok to spread the word. Whilst neglible in terms of audience it has done three things:
1. Got the Trump campaign boasting beforehand about numbers
2. Wasted campaign funds setting up for these numbers
3. Skewed the Trump team's data collection of those who RSVPed as future voters.

Marvellous to see the Ego has crash landed. The solitary walk from Marine 1, alone and forlorn was hilarious to behold...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Looks like loads of people RSVPed with little intention of going - lots of teenagers not old enough to vote used Tiktok to spread the word. Whilst neglible in terms of audience it has done three things:
1. Got the Trump campaign boasting beforehand about numbers
2. Wasted campaign funds setting up for these numbers
3. Skewed the Trump team's data collection of those who RSVPed as future voters.

An overflow meeting was planned with a guest speaker to orate to the millions. A guest speaker who flew thousands of miles to attend breaking health rules both sides of the Atlantic. Farage got to see an empty car park.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

I see from footage of the rally on the news tonight that the President of the United States of America also referred to Covid19 as "the Kung Flu virus."

Stay classy, Donald

Time for Carl Douglas to come out of retirement and make a hit record?

 

[schmunk]

Time for Carl Douglas to come out of retirement and make a hit record?

You were fast as lightning with that quip.

 

[Stato]

Trump can use whatever racist epithets he like for CV-19, What people will remember is the numbers. By my reckoning of the latest figures, the USA, with approx. 4% of the world's population, have suffered about 25% of the world's deaths from the virus. If you add Brazil & the UK to those numbers, it would seem that the three countries, all run by lazy, stupid, self serving blusterers with a massive disregard for the truth have a combined 8% of world population and about 45% of the total deaths.

This is what we get when we get annoyed with the world's complexity and, in a search for simple answers, elect the loudest voice in the saloon bar. Ignoring complexity doesn't make problems go away. It just leaves us unable to cope when the consequences arise. Maybe it's about time we went on our hands and knees back to Michael Gove's experts and told them that we're sorry we thought we knew best and that maybe studying something for the whole of their professional life does make their judgement a little more reliable than our wishful thinking.

 

[The Fifth Column]

Trump can use whatever racist epithets he like for CV-19, What people will remember is the numbers. By my reckoning of the latest figures, the USA, with approx. 4% of the world's population, have suffered about 25% of the world's deaths from the virus. If you add Brazil & the UK to those numbers, it would seem that the three countries, all run by lazy, stupid, self serving blusterers with a massive disregard for the truth have a combined 8% of world population and about 45% of the total deaths.

This is what we get when we get annoyed with the world's complexity and, in a search for simple answers, elect the loudest voice in the saloon bar. Ignoring complexity doesn't make problems go away. It just leaves us unable to cope when the consequences arise. Maybe it's about time we went on our hands and knees back to Michael Gove's experts and told them that we're sorry we thought we knew best and that maybe studying something for the whole of their professional life does make their judgement a little more reliable than our wishful thinking.

Unfortunately your stats are flawed as you seem to accept and believe the figures coming out of China & Russia, there are also plenty of other countries either faking or simply unable to correctly measure their death rates by Covid. The data you are using is fundamentally flawed. I don't disagree with the crux if your post however.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Trump can use whatever racist epithets he like for CV-19, What people will remember is the numbers. By my reckoning of the latest figures, the USA, with approx. 4% of the world's population, have suffered about 25% of the world's deaths from the virus. If you add Brazil & the UK to those numbers, it would seem that the three countries, all run by lazy, stupid, self serving blusterers with a massive disregard for the truth have a combined 8% of world population and about 45% of the total deaths.

This is what we get when we get annoyed with the world's complexity and, in a search for simple answers, elect the loudest voice in the saloon bar. Ignoring complexity doesn't make problems go away. It just leaves us unable to cope when the consequences arise. Maybe it's about time we went on our hands and knees back to Michael Gove's experts and told them that we're sorry we thought we knew best and that maybe studying something for the whole of their professional life does make their judgement a little more reliable than our wishful thinking.

Unfortunately your stats are flawed as you seem to accept and believe the figures coming out of China & Russia, there are also plenty of other countries either faking or simply unable to correctly measure their death rates by Covid. The data you are using is fundamentally flawed. I don't disagree with the crux if your post however.

I'm with [MENTION=17831]The Fifth Column[/MENTION] here, in that I wholeheartly agree with [MENTION=22849]Stato[/MENTION]'s assessment of Trump and Johnson (I don't know much about the Brazilian premier), but to be honest the numbers declared by Italy, France and Spain are frankly, complete and utter bobbins. (Plus the numbers for China and Russia, as mentioned above, would be laughable if we weren't talking about people dying).

I've never liked seeing Covid as some sort of macabre league table, but I guess there has to be some way to judge the comparative effectiveness of governmental responses around the world, so respective body counts and infections as a % of population is inevitable. But if various countries are just making up or grossly underplaying the numbers, any analysis is rendered meaningless.

I guess what isn't up for debate is that regardless of the numbers in other countries, the UK could and should have done so much better. As Johnathan Powell said on NewsNight the other evening, Johnson was the wrong PM at the wrong time, given his track record for indecision and a tendency to get bored very quickly with anything that requires focus and a grip on detail.

 

[Gwylan]

I'm with [MENTION=17831]The Fifth Column[/MENTION] here, in that I wholeheartly agree with [MENTION=22849]Stato[/MENTION]'s assessment of Trump and Johnson (I don't know much about the Brazilian premier), but to be honest the numbers declared by Italy, France and Spain are frankly, complete and utter bobbins.

It's difficult (impossible) to get absolute 100% certainty but France's figures are widely held to be the most accurate of any country - they're pretty much on par with excess deaths. It's the one country that has been recording deaths in care homes and homes right from the outset, most other countries are under-estimating figures (Spain, China and Russia especially). The exception is Belgium which has almost certainly been over-estimating

 

[highflyer]

It's difficult (impossible) to get absolute 100% certainty but France's figures are widely held to be the most accurate of any country - they're pretty much on par with excess deaths. It's the one country that has been recording deaths in care homes and homes right from the outset, most other countries are under-estimating figures (Spain, China and Russia especially). The exception is Belgium which has almost certainly been over-estimating

I am sure China's official numbers are lower than the reality, as with many countries for various reasons.

But I am puzzled by the absolute certainty, here and elsewhere, that they are so far out. The main reason we don't like China is that it is a powerful authoritaran state that exerts immense control over its population and doesn't hesitate to put the greater good of the country ahead of individual freedoms. Precisely the same reasons for believing that they are in a good position to clamp down very fast and effectively on an outbreak of disease.

The lockdown in Wuhan was absolutely brutal. I doubt any other country could have done it like that. We have seen how effective our own, comparatively half-arsed, lockdown was in slowing the spread of the virus. So why wouldn't you think their's would not have stopped it in its tracks? They were dealing with a far more contained outbreak, with probably a single initial source in just one location. Whereas the UK started with large numbers of initial infection points (thousands I read) all at once. So the initial speed of spread would have been far faster in the UK, and (especially given the faffing and delays) the starting point for our lockdown was probably a much higher level of infections. While I am sure a virus would spread very quickly at a very local level in China, outside of the mass worker movements at certain points of the year, I doubt people travel as far and as often from their places of home and work in China as in UK and he rest of Europe (stand to be corrected), so the initial spread would have been slower, and from a single source.

For sure they had the incentive to cover up early on, while they still thought they could control it, and probably did try. And the WHO were too quick to take China's assurances. But they were sharing the DNA profile in January, and seem to have been open about the latest outbreak in Beijing (which I bet they deal with very efficiently).

 

[The Fifth Column]

I am sure China's official numbers are lower than the reality, as with many countries for various reasons.

But I am puzzled by the absolute certainty, here and elsewhere, that they are so far out. The main reason we don't like China is that it is a powerful authoritaran state that exerts immense control over its population and doesn't hesitate to put the greater good of the country ahead of individual freedoms. Precisely the same reasons for believing that they are in a good position to clamp down very fast and effectively on an outbreak of disease.

The lockdown in Wuhan was absolutely brutal. I doubt any other country could have done it like that. We have seen how effective our own, comparatively half-arsed, lockdown was in slowing the spread of the virus. So why wouldn't you think their's would not have stopped it in its tracks? They were dealing with a far more contained outbreak, with probably a single initial source in just one location. Whereas the UK started with large numbers of initial infection points (thousands I read) all at once. So the initial speed of spread would have been far faster in the UK, and (especially given the faffing and delays) the starting point for our lockdown was probably a much higher level of infections. While I am sure a virus would spread very quickly at a very local level in China, outside of the mass worker movements at certain points of the year, I doubt people travel as far and as often from their places of home and work in China as in UK and he rest of Europe (stand to be corrected), so the initial spread would have been slower, and from a single source.

For sure they had the incentive to cover up early on, while they still thought they could control it, and probably did try. And the WHO were too quick to take China's assurances. But they were sharing the DNA profile in January, and seem to have been open about the latest outbreak in Beijing (which I bet they deal with very efficiently).

I get what you are saying and I've no doubt that their draconian measures had some effect but the way their infection and death rates just suddenly dropped off a cliff within a few days just doesn't hold up to scrutiny or could be possible given how this disease spreads. There are lots of reports online if you look deeply enough of bodies being stacked up, dumped on the streets and hospitals being overwhelmed in various countries including Russia and China. Russia for instance has suddenly in recent months recorded 10s of thousands of excess deaths to Pneumonia when in fact it will be Covid being the real cause but there is political gain to be had by underreporting in Russia and China as the US under Trump makes a total Clusterf'uck of thr crisis.

 

[highflyer]

the way their infection and death rates just suddenly dropped off a cliff within a few days just doesn't hold up to scrutiny or could be possible given how this disease spreads.

I'm suggesting they do hold up (potentially) to scrutiny, geven the reasons I have suggested: Spread being much slower if starting from a single infection point, in a society where people tend to stay more local and with an utterly ruthless lockdown by a government willing and capable to enforce it.

To me that would explain both how the numbers would not have gone up as quickly as they did in early stages in the UK and (eg) New York and how their extreme version of lockdown would have stopped it in its tracks.

You'll forgive me if I do not count 'reports on line' as credible evidence either way, and therefore, of course, in the absence of other information, we are both just speculating on the internet. But if you'd asked me in advance whether I'd expect the US or China to deal better with an outbreak of an infectious and potentially deadly disease, I know my money would have been on China. All day every day. So it's hardly a surprise.

 

[vegster]

I get what you are saying and I've no doubt that their draconian measures had some effect but the way their infection and death rates just suddenly dropped off a cliff within a few days just doesn't hold up to scrutiny or could be possible given how this disease spreads. There are lots of reports online if you look deeply enough of bodies being stacked up, dumped on the streets and hospitals being overwhelmed in various countries including Russia and China. Russia for instance has suddenly in recent months recorded 10s of thousands of excess deaths to Pneumonia when in fact it will be Covid being the real cause but there is political gain to be had by underreporting in Russia and China as the US under Trump makes a total Clusterf'uck of thr crisis.

Russia's " figures" are truly risible, only 8,000 fatalities from nearly 600,000 cases! However, the Russians have always been exceptionally good at burying bad news and particularly bodies.

 

[crookie]

Russia's " figures" are truly risible, only 8,000 fatalities from nearly 600,000 cases! However, the Russians have always been exceptionally good at burying bad news and particularly bodies.

I read an in-depth article recently from one of the Southern Russian republics, possibly Dagestan, about how they were dealing with the crisis. IIRC their medical director intimated that the official figures were a joke. His recorded deaths from Covid on 1 day were higher than the official figures for the whole of Russia !!

 

[Acker79]

[tweet]1275042854537134080[/tweet]

[tweet]1274828565385805824[/tweet]

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

You were fast as lightning with that quip.

In fact it was a little bit frightening!

 

[The Fifth Column]

I read an in-depth article recently from one of the Southern Russian republics, possibly Dagestan, about how they were dealing with the crisis. IIRC their medical director intimated that the official figures were a joke. His recorded deaths from Covid on 1 day were higher than the official figures for the whole of Russia !!

I imagine he will be falling from a hospital window very soon.

 

[lawros left foot]