Trump

[Swansman]

Yup. It's the certainty that's the problem.
Here's some advice to [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION]: enjoy being wrong, because you can then learn from it; you could even admit that the paleo- nonsense that you've encountered on the Internet and social media puts you in impeccably poor company.

Is there anything wrong with finding information on the internet? What is your preferred source - TV? Everything you see on TV you can also see online. Radio? Everything you hear on radio you can hear online. Books? Everything you can read in books you can also read online.

As for poor company I dont really do the whole guilt by association thing. Just because Jeffrey Dahmer had a fridge doesnt make anyone owning a fridge Jeffrey Dahmer.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

For a while, but then he changed his mind, because he thought it would gain him more votes (or derive other benefits).
It's that simple with him: what's in it for me? I fear you like that motto too.

I think his motto is 'not as bad as Hilary' and, more lately, 'not as bad as Biden'. It's an opinion I don't share, but given that Sleepy Joe could have blundered America into nuclear war last week, one does worry about the long term future of the US, whoever has the sufficient riches (sorry, talent) to run for office. As always, we get the governments we deserve.

 

[drew]

Is there anything wrong with finding information on the internet? What is your preferred source - TV? Everything you see on TV you can also see online. Radio? Everything you hear on radio you can hear online. Books? Everything you can read in books you can also read online.

As for poor company I dont really do the whole guilt by association thing. Just because Jeffrey Dahmer had a fridge doesnt make anyone owning a fridge Jeffrey Dahmer.

Is that a serious question? Yes, you can look things up on the internet but if you source of choice about a pandemic is, for example, Alex Jones or President Trump rather peer reviewed medical papers etc then you are going to be open to ridicule.

 

[Swansman]

Is that a serious question? Yes, you can look things up on the internet but if you source of choice about a pandemic is, for example, Alex Jones or President Trump rather peer reviewed medical papers etc then you are going to be open to ridicule.

Wouldnt touch Jones or Trump with a stick but find it hilarious that a **** load of people suddenly pretend to be reading medical papers (obviously only the ones that they feel 'counts') all day long. Neither do I really care about them generally speaking, you can distort science and peer reviews can be biased. In the case of face masks I dont listen to Donald Trump and I dont pretend to read medical papers, I just go for the very primitive solution to see whether people in countries where everyone and their mums carry face masks die less often from Covid or not and then I take the decision not to, and so far it has been working great as I'm alive and well.

 

[bhafc99]

Thread over guys, Trump’s about to be restored to the White House and a lot of us who thought Biden won fair and square are going to need to eat some serious humble pie.

Apparently the Space Force (remember, that Trump set up?) was actually tracking our attempt to steal the election all along, and is now ready to issue 269,000 indictments, sorry, 500,000 indictments - any one of us could get a knock on the door from the FBI any day now.

There’s also going to be 7 days of wall-to-coverage on TV, so we can probably get rid of the “What’s good to watch on Netflix” etc threads too.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-tru...al-michigan-washington-township-1694638?amp=1

 

[A1X]

So Space Force watched the election being stolen and a mere 18 months later she thinks they’re just about to do something about it?

 

[Dutch]

Somebody in this complicated world is operating a grand plan, and it is definitely not over-simplifying it. What is very simple however is to believe that the world is what we're told it is. It is also not a "false explanation" for something I dont understand, because I truly believe I do whereas you are the one claiming "it is too complicated to understand or control". My beliefs of the structure of this world is shared with some of the greatest thinkers who ever walked this planet.

Huxley and Orwell did not predict the future as a fully controlled and totalitarian world because they were oversimplifying things or not understanding the world - quite the opposite. They understood what I've understood, they've read what I've read, they've connected the dots like I've connected the dots. And there's plenty more - there's scores of us - although obviously there are more who shares your perspective, otherwise there would be no reason for me (or Huxley/Orwell for that matter) to believe that the future looks the way we believe it will; its not possible without the majority of the world thinking "no one and nothing is behind this - it is all coincidence and chaos".

Does it make me look silly like you're saying? Definitely in the eyes of most people, but it is mutual.

Huxley and Orwell were both members of the Fabian Society. They both understood the players and their motives hence their dystopian books. They were part of that society. Order out of chaos.

 

[Swansman]

Huxley and Orwell were both members of the Fabian Society. They both understood the players and their motives hence their dystopian books. They were part of that society. Order out of chaos.

They did indeed. Not that the Fabian Society is the core, just one of many tentacles.

The progression is fascinating to follow for those of us who are aware. You have to look at that way or it is just depressing.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Wouldnt touch Jones or Trump with a stick but find it hilarious that a **** load of people suddenly pretend to be reading medical papers (obviously only the ones that they feel 'counts') all day long. Neither do I really care about them generally speaking, you can distort science and peer reviews can be biased. In the case of face masks I dont listen to Donald Trump and I dont pretend to read medical papers, I just go for the very primitive solution to see whether people in countries where everyone and their mums carry face masks die less often from Covid or not and then I take the decision not to, and so far it has been working great as I'm alive and well.

I can give you a tutorial on experimental design and analysis if you need one. I teach it. "Trust nobody" is probably the executive summary and "Here is how to sniff out bullshit (based on transparency of fair testing) the follow up. Then I nut them, kick them in the bollocks and roll them into a watery grave.

Peer review is an interesting beast...

But no matter how badly it is done, it doesn't mean that whimsy and hubris trump it. Remember that

 

[Mental Lental]

I just go for the very primitive solution to see whether people in countries where everyone and their mums carry face masks die less often from Covid or not and then I take the decision not to

Japan says hi.

 

[NooBHA]

Is there anything wrong with finding information on the internet? What is your preferred source - TV? Everything you see on TV you can also see online. Radio? Everything you hear on radio you can hear online. Books? Everything you can read in books you can also read online.

As for poor company I dont really do the whole guilt by association thing. Just because Jeffrey Dahmer had a fridge doesnt make anyone owning a fridge Jeffrey Dahmer.

For such an intelligent bloke. Some of the analogies you use are perplexing.

" Owning a fridge doesn't make you Jeffrey Dahmer "

Whilst in essence the statement is factual. I often wonder what makes you link the topic being discussed to the analogy you use ?

I seldom see the link. Maybe I just don't have the same Macabre Mind

 

[Swansman]

Japan says hi.

Sure, but so do Norway and Denmark (to a bit lesser extent tbf but still).

Anyway it is well established that Japanese people are immortal so they're not in the equation.

Say hi back though, interesting country

 

[Swansman]

For such an intelligent bloke. Some of the analogies you use are perplexing.

" Owning a fridge doesn't make you Jeffrey Dahmer "

Whilst in essence the statement is factual. I often wonder what makes you link the topic being discussed to the analogy you use ?

I seldom see the link. Maybe I just don't have the same Macabre Mind

Ok, to make it clearer:

The whole "you shouldnt feel/think/believe X because there are bad people who also feel/think/believe X" is not a valid argument, its a fallacy. That idiots, or geniuses for that matter, share some your views doesnt make the views any less or more valid. As an example, vegetarianism is not worse or better just because Hitler was a vegetarian.

So if thousands of other conspiracy theorists watch FOX News or Police Academy movies or drying dogshit, there is no reason why that would change my perspectives. It has nothing to do with me.

 

[BadFish]

Somebody in this complicated world is operating a grand plan, and it is definitely not over-simplifying it. What is very simple however is to believe that the world is what we're told it is. It is also not a "false explanation" for something I dont understand, because I truly believe I do whereas you are the one claiming "it is too complicated to understand or control". My beliefs of the structure of this world is shared with some of the greatest thinkers who ever walked this planet.

Huxley and Orwell did not predict the future as a fully controlled and totalitarian world because they were oversimplifying things or not understanding the world - quite the opposite. They understood what I've understood, they've read what I've read, they've connected the dots like I've connected the dots. And there's plenty more - there's scores of us - although obviously there are more who shares your perspective, otherwise there would be no reason for me (or Huxley/Orwell for that matter) to believe that the future looks the way we believe it will; its not possible without the majority of the world thinking "no one and nothing is behind this - it is all coincidence and chaos".

Does it make me look silly like you're saying? Definitely in the eyes of most people, but it is mutual.

Connecting different dots in different ways creates an infinite number of pictures.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Wouldnt touch Jones or Trump with a stick but find it hilarious that a **** load of people suddenly pretend to be reading medical papers (obviously only the ones that they feel 'counts') all day long. Neither do I really care about them generally speaking, you can distort science and peer reviews can be biased. In the case of face masks I dont listen to Donald Trump and I dont pretend to read medical papers, I just go for the very primitive solution to see whether people in countries where everyone and their mums carry face masks die less often from Covid or not and then I take the decision not to, and so far it has been working great as I'm alive and well.

Deaths per million:

Sweden - 1795

Hong Kong 1,098

Japan- 225

Singapore - 216

Taiwan 36

It is quite a primitive way of doing things.

That said based on that primitive way of doing things I've highlighted four countries where everyone and their mothers wear masks and are much more densely populated than Sweden who all have considerably lower death rates than Sweden.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

 

[Badger Boy]

Good to see a pair of presidents at the White House yesterday talking about legislation that has enabled more than 30 million Americans to get health care. It was good to hear President Obama speaking about what was a clear highlight of his presidency without any negativity or pessimism or slinging any mud around. He continues to be a true leader of character and purpose.

 

[Swansman]

Deaths per million:

Sweden - 1795

Hong Kong 1,098

Japan- 225

Singapore - 216

Taiwan 36

It is quite a primitive way of doing things.

That said based on that primitive way of doing things I've highlighted four countries where everyone and their mothers wear masks and are much more densely populated than Sweden who all have considerably lower death rates than Sweden.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Deaths per million

Hungary - 4,746

Chile - 2,999

Colombia - 2,695

Italy - 2,655

Norway - 458

Four countries where everyone and their mothers wore masks (https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-12175-9) and one country (Norway) where they didnt.

 

[Mental Lental]

Deaths per million

Hungary - 4,746

Chile - 2,999

Colombia - 2,695

Italy - 2,655

Norway - 458

Four countries where everyone and their mothers wore masks (https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-12175-9) and one country (Norway) where they didnt.

Gotta define what you mean by "wearing masks". In Japan, you put a mask on when you leave the house, and you take it off when you get home. No exceptions. I've seen other countries define mask wearing as "I carry one around in my pocket and put it on if I feel like I need to." I suspect Italy, given their famous laissez-faire attitude, are of the latter type.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Deaths per million

Hungary - 4,746

Chile - 2,999

Colombia - 2,695

Italy - 2,655

Norway - 458

Four countries where everyone and their mothers wore masks (https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-12175-9) and one country (Norway) where they didnt.

Have you read the study you have linked to?

I'm not sure why you've linked to it? If I've missed the point, and there's a fair chance I have, my apologies.

The very first line in it says:

Guidelines and recommendations from public health authorities related to face masks have been essential in containing the COVID-19 pandemic.

It then goes onto say in the 'Background' section:

In an effort to control and prevent the spread of the novel coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), health organizations have recommended the use of a face covering or mask in public settings. Yet, despite growing evidence of the effectiveness of using face masks in reducing the transmission of COVID-19 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7], there is still a lack of knowledge regarding mask-wearing behaviors on a global scale.

The main objective of this study was, therefore, to examine the evolution of mask usage across different countries over time during the COVID-19 pandemic and assess whether individual and country-level factors were associated with the decision to wear a mask.

In the conclusion it says:

In summary, it shows that various sociodemographic factors, such as older age, female gender, higher education, and urbanicity, are associated with higher face mask usage, while more risky social behaviors, such as going out to a large public event, restaurant, shopping center, and socializing outside of the household are associated with lower mask use. In addition, stronger face mask-related policies are associated with higher mask usage. Taken together with existing evidence regarding the effectiveness of mask usage, our findings have important implications for health prevention policies and messaging in the context of the ongoing and future public health emergencies, as they highlight the importance of better targeting specific populations and behaviors when designing policies and messaging campaigns.

The study highlights several times the efficacy of mask wearing and is an attempt to work out what factors go into people not wearing them so that public health policies can be better targeted and more effective in their face mask messaging.

I'm not sure what relevance it has to the argument that not wearing a mask has no effect on the spread of covid. Even the one country you highlighted(Denmark) has double that of Japan and more than double of Singapore and Taiwan. South Korea another country that loves a mask and is, or at least was until recently, going through a bit of a covid explosion only has 351, so about 25% lower than Denmark.

If anything that article backs up the argument for wearing a mask, highlighting as it does that many people don't wear one in 'more risky social behaviors, such as going out to a large public event, restaurant, shopping center, and socializing outside of the household are associated with lower mask use.' I can't speak with authority on the other Asian countries I mentioned, only on Japan but face mask usage here is high in all settings. They're basically worn from the moment people leave their house until the time they get back. I will say though, based on my experience of those countries, that I'd be surprised if there was a massive difference between their face mask usage and Japans.

I think you mentioned the U.K earlier as a country that has high face mask usage. Based on what my family and friends tell me the face mask usage there is nowhere close to that of Japan. If that is the benchmark for wearing a face mask then you're right, you may as well not wear one. If you use a country that genuinely does wear masks constantly then things look different.

Apologies again if I've misunderstood your point, and also for the length of this post.

 

[W.C.]

Gotta define what you mean by "wearing masks". In Japan, you put a mask on when you leave the house, and you take it off when you get home. No exceptions. I've seen other countries define mask wearing as "I carry one around in my pocket and put it on if I feel like I need to." I suspect Italy, given their famous laissez-faire attitude, are of the latter type.

Right? I remember family and friends talking about 'everyone' wearing masks in the UK, and yet a quick glance at a news report or any other outside broadcast showed that 'everyone' meant something a little different to what it does here in Japan.