He still does but it's desperation to try and use the Presidency to keep himself out of jail - Trump is massively responsible for all the people dyeing in Ukraine because during his Presidency he emboldened Putin and if he had got a second term he would have pulled the US out of NATO - The man is a Monster
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Trump
- Thread starter ShandyH
- Start date
He still does but it's desperation to try and use the Presidency to keep himself out of jail - Trump is massively responsible for all the people dyeing in Ukraine because during his Presidency he emboldened Putin and if he had got a second term he would have pulled the US out of NATO - The man is a Monster
nicko31
Well-known member
If DT gets in again I think US democracy is in real trouble. That's the one good thing that came out of covid, we avoided a second term, but is it just a stay of execution?
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RexCathedra
Aurea Mediocritas
Popular support for democracy isn't all that and a bag of chips (sorry, crisps) in this country.
A lot of people don't see the point. Democracy can mean giving a voice -- an equal voice -- to a lot of people you don't care to hear, or think should have any voice at all.
In a couple hundred years, the American dialect of English will have lost its first person plural, and the pronoun "we" will be marked 'obsolete' in the dictionaries.
Democracy can be a lot of work. "Just tell me what to do, and get on with it" saves time and effort.
I'm 65 and hopefully will be spared the final descent into whatever Trump is the harbinger of.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/30/fec-dnc-clinton-campaign/
FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
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Yes but there is suboptimal, and there is fascism. Just because the US has never been optimal is no reason to bend over for Trump
Yes but there is suboptimal, and there is fascism. Just because the US has never been optimal is no reason to bend over for Trump
The US is an oligarchy under any president at any time, "suboptimal" is a very friendly description. It is a country politically very similar to Russia.
Yes but there is suboptimal, and there is fascism. Just because the US has never been optimal is no reason to bend over for Trump
In your highly esteemed opinion, what is the “optimal” form of government and in which nations does it currently reside?
Just as an aside, the position of President is largely skewed towards owning foreign policy. Internally a President is hampered by Congress and the Senate. Imagine Boris being PM but Labour having the majority in the House of Commons. Of course there are times when the Senate, Congress and the President are all aligned but that doesn't alesys work. Trump had this for the first two years of his Presidency and did very little with it.
What would be interesting is how Trump would manage his second term, were he to get in. 4 years isn't long and knowing he would have to leave office anyway he could be dangerous for either side - he wouldn't have to play ball as much with the Republican faction who he hates.
I think it will more likely be DeSantis than Trump who will be seen by most Republicans as a viable option. For a start it gives them possibly 8 years as opposed to 4.
What would be interesting is how Trump would manage his second term, were he to get in. 4 years isn't long and knowing he would have to leave office anyway he could be dangerous for either side - he wouldn't have to play ball as much with the Republican faction who he hates.
I think it will more likely be DeSantis than Trump who will be seen by most Republicans as a viable option. For a start it gives them possibly 8 years as opposed to 4.
I said just because the US has never been optimal there is no need (for Swansman) to accept Trump as simply nothing more nor less than a typical US president. He is not typical and I am more concerned with the travesty and disgrace of a Trump presidency and the horrible prospect of a second term than I am pontificating on what constitutes an optimal political system. I find it concerning if people are like Swansman and just shrug their shoulders about Trump because he's just a typical US president.
If you are genuinely interested in my opinion (which, by your sarcastic tone, I doubt) then ask me again. You do realise, by the way, that optimal means the best possible, not 'perfect'? An electoral college designed to give disproportionate representation to farmers, and a voter registration process designed to make it hard for certain demographics to cast a vote is transparently suboptimal, I would have thought (unless you are a white conservative, of course).
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
yeah, the US system is misunderstood and more complex. seems there has been a growth of power, due to military control President has, in past half centuary or so. the Presidential election is not fit for the purpose of that embiggened office - the original President is an arbitrator. a lot of power is with the states, if they dont like things their local state legislators will block; if they want thing they'll introduce them. Presidental power is very transistional, they release special directives that have little legal power, that get reversed by the next one. but they set the tone of politics and guide policy.
Trump was and is dangerous because he seeks to overturn that and make the President more powerful on detail domestic matters.
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 7,366
The USA's democracy has all the problems that any capitalist democracy has, but in general terms it has seperation of the three branches of government, the rule of law and a free press. Putting arguments about definitions of democracy aside, these are what Russia is missing and these are what Trump would wish to remove. He is of the belief that executive power should be supreme and that the role of the legislative and judicial branches should be to serve the executive rather than provide constraints on its power. Unfortunately he is supported by many who see in this the short term gains available to support their policy positions and don't see the long term threat to the system. I suspect that this is what [MENTION=15360]nicko31[/MENTION] meant when he said that Trump poses a threat to US democracy.
Criticise other presidents all you like for their policy positions. I'd probably agree with a lot of the criticisms, but no other modern president has threatened the scant checks and balances that are available in a capitalist democracy the way Trump has. Anarchists and revolutionaries may see this as a means to an end: smash the current system and the people will end up taking control, but this kind of historical determinism has proved to be the achilles heel in Marx's analysis. It is not inevitable that capitalist democracy will be replaced by something better. There is every chance that it will be replaced with something much much worse.
Badger Boy
Mr Badger
- Jan 28, 2016
- 3,658
There is nothing typical about Trump. He doesn't understand, care for, have interest in or knowledge of traditional norms. He showed a total lack of respect to the whole country with his bumbling stupidity. The Republican party did get things done during his time in office, such as appointing judges to rip up social progresses made across the country, but the man himself achieved almost nothing at all in office. He was ineffective, illinformed and totally unsuccessful. His tax cut was his only "accomplishment", other than being the source material of multiple tell-all books which competed with each other for top spot in the book sales charts. Biden, on the other hand, with an effective and responsible administration has done more in a year than the orange-fella managed in his full term. Whether Biden wins a second term or not is largely irrelevant, what was important for the country was getting the wannabe Dictator out of office and a grown up elected to replace him.
Officially there is a seperation of powers in both Russia and the US. In reality, Putin and the Russian oligarchs have nearly full power, while the American oligarchs and their puppets from the two parties have nearly full power in the US.
There is no such thing as "free press" in the US... well, there might be if you go underground, but any source with any type of influence is owned by the oligarchy. "Owned by oligarchs" and "free" are two incompatible concepts.
No American president is a threat to democracy because in reality they have no power and only carry out whatever decision is made above them. If the US oligarchy wants to "threaten the checks and balances", which isnt necessary as they are not affected by it but still possible as abandoning the whole democracy charade would make things smoother, then yes they may use Donald Trump to carry that out, as he is one of theirs, just like Joe Biden and any previous president.
If any president goes berzerk and tries to walk his own path, the oligarchy will get rid of him one way or another. Perhaps kill him, like they did with John F Kennedy, perhaps turn their media assets against him, perhaps make sure behind closed doors that if you dont do as we tell you, we're killing you or making sure the whole world think you are some goat-****ing pervo or we'll drown your daugther. Not personally, obviously, but through the executive branch of the oligarchy - the CIA.
"Democracy", even in the purely fictional, false facade way it exists today, has no future. The reason modern "democracy" was created was not in order to give power to the people, but to gradually remove the power of the aristocracy and hand it to the oligarchy. It is just a phase in a grand plan to create a totalitarian world. It will be removed in due time, and while I agree the replacement will be no better in most senses, we're going to applaud the day it happens.
Every country in the World is the same as you describe. Money corrupts Governments everywhere and Governments corrupt Money - It's just the levels of corruption that differ. Your own country has it too but I get the feeling that the levels of corruption in the Scandic Nations is a lot less than anywhere else. I quite admire how those nations look after the less privileged in Society. They aren't perfect but they are close to the best that you are gonna get.
The US is the most hypocritical of the lot but there is a lot of decency in the US too - They are just too f#cked up with their failure to address their Barbaric History - Conversely, Russia pursues their reckless history a little too much.
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 7,366
The corruptive influence of international capital is not the same thing as an oligarchy. and if you honestly believe that anybody in this infinitely complicated modern world is operating a 'grand plan' that is runnning things then you are massively over simplifying immensely complex networks of motivations, power, influence, relationships and unintended consequences in a hope that it can be simplified enough for one human being to understand it.
This is a very human instinct, but one to be avoided as it provides a worldview that dismisses or has false explanation for anything that it doesn't understand or that its model can't explain. It feels reassuring, but it isn't real. Reality is currently experienced uniquely by 7.8 billion different people and is too complicated for even the cleverest of us to understand even a tiny fraction of, let alone control. Pretending that this is not the case may make people seem clever to themselves, but it makes them seem silly to most others.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
I enjoy your posts, even the absurd ones…
It's not remotely absurd to characterise the US (or even the UK) as oligarchical. Oligarchy is the rule of the rich, and we're living at a moment when the divide between the rich and poor has never been starker than at any other time in history.
Neil Katyal was very good in summing up Trumps relationship with Russia yesterday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHvPa4lB-8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHvPa4lB-8o