[Politics] Trump makes the main board but Johnson doesn't.

[WATFORD zero]

But the thread title suggests that this thread is just going to be a boo-hoo-I-don't-like-the-bear-pit whinge.

Get the mods to change the thread title ?

Good idea

Mods, can we change the title to 'General discussion about the British Government'

But I'm beginning to think there are a significant number of posters on here that make it impossible to have a mature discussion on NSC anymore. And the worst part is that it means [MENTION=33885]Badger Boy[/MENTION] [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] and [MENTION=34242]Neville's Breakfast[/MENTION] were right all along

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Good idea

Mods, can we change the title to 'General discussion about the British Government'

But I'm beginning to think there are a significant number of posters on here that make it impossible to have a mature discussion on NSC anymore. And the worst part is that it means [MENTION=33885]Badger Boy[/MENTION] [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] and [MENTION=34242]Neville's Breakfast[/MENTION] were right all along

So it started out as a comment about the Bear Pit, developed into a bit of a test of the resolve of the mods to defend the Big Board from bear pit like threads, then became a rival for the Covid sub forum. Now true colours are being shown and you want it to be a Bear Pit thread situated on the Big Board where people can insult each other about their politics and Brexit all day.
I have an alternative. Just play by the rules. The football is on tonight.

 

[Chicken Run]

Good idea

Mods, can we change the title to 'General discussion about the British Government'

But I'm beginning to think there are a significant number of posters on here that make it impossible to have a mature discussion on NSC anymore. And the worst part is that it means [MENTION=33885]Badger Boy[/MENTION] [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] and [MENTION=34242]Neville's Breakfast[/MENTION] were right all along

Maybe start a monthly poll on their performance?

 

[Chicken Run]

So it started out as a comment about the Bear Pit, developed into a bit of a test of the resolve of the mods to defend the Big Board from bear pit like threads, then became a rival for the Covid sub forum. Now true colours are being shown and you want it to be a Bear Pit thread situated on the Big Board where people can insult each other about their politics and Brexit all day.
I have an alternative. Just play by the rules. The football is in tonight.

[emoji106]

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I do find it interesting how a thread on how Donald Trump, president of the USA has been handling the major issues in the USA (China, Russia, the US Economy, Covid, Corruption, etc) has been on the Main Board for over 3 years.

However, if I was to start a thread on how Boris Johnson, prime minister of the UK has been handling the major issues in the UK (Covid, Brexit, the economy, corruption etc) it would immediately be moved to the Bear Pit or the Covid sub forum.

Even though the second thread effects the vast majority of NSC posters far more than the first, yet we shouldn't talk about it on the main board.

Just saying like

I've said it a number of times - because separate forums is a shit idea. Designed for the brainless that don't understand that you don't HAVE to open and read a thread.

It is double standards. We can say negative things about Trump but say a negative thing about our dear Tory leader and it is off to the Bear pit. I wonder why....

Possibly for the first time in the history of man Plooks, we're in complete agreement.

 

[Bozza]

What an utter car crash of a thread to start the day with. Right, let's do this....

I do find it interesting how a thread on how Donald Trump, president of the USA has been handling the major issues in the USA (China, Russia, the US Economy, Covid, Corruption, etc) has been on the Main Board for over 3 years.

However, if I was to start a thread on how Boris Johnson, prime minister of the UK has been handling the major issues in the UK (Covid, Brexit, the economy, corruption etc) it would immediately be moved to the Bear Pit or the Covid sub forum.

Even though the second thread effects the vast majority of NSC posters far more than the first, yet we shouldn't talk about it on the main board.

Just saying like

When I created The Bear Pit and moved the binfests-of-the-moment to it, other mods asked me about the Trump thread. I'll say to you as I said to them: it was a thread I'd not visited for many months but, when I did check on it at that time, the last few pages seemed broadly amicable. There were none of the regular right v left going-nowhere-at-all hostilities, so it remained.

It will, however, be moved to TBP should that happen. Please note: this is not an invitation for someone/people to go and do that now.

A broader point on TBP: My intention was that NO new threads get started there. All threads get started here and they will be moved to TBP if they become toxic and hostile with two sides get increasingly bitter, whilst at the same time persuading absolutely no-one of their point of view. The only reason threads can be started in TBP is that I set the sub-forum up incorrectly when I created it.

During the Covid epidemic Britain has suffered more than 65,000 Excess deaths.

View attachment 126131

I believe that this is an appalling result, especially considering that we had significant notice from Italy, Spain and France of what was coming and the issues it could cause, together with the fact that we are an Island with complete control over our borders.

I believe this was primarily caused by a lack of focused leadership, with the Government following decisions, on the whole, made by other organisations in the UK (Sporting events, lockdown, testing, quarantine, facemasks) rather than taking a lead and bringing in these measures in a timely and urgent fashion themselves.

It was then exacerbated by further individual issues which I don't believe were handled well (PPE supply, movement of untested patients into care homes, delay in care home testing, publishing of figures for hospitals only, Pure number of tests taking priority over turnaround of tests, Cummings trip, Complete failure of track and trace app).

Now I am sure there are posters on here who do not share my view, so maybe they would like to post with the reasons that they believe the excess deaths to be reasonable or good for a country in the UK's situation.

If we can manage to discuss this without insults etc, maybe we can start to discuss other things which effect the majority of posters here

(If it starts going bear pit, I'll report it to the mods myself)

This is Covid discussion and, per broad consensus does not belong on the main board. There are regular "how are Boris et al getting on with Covid?" threads in the Covid-19 sub-forum. In fact, as I type this, and without going away to check, I'm pretty sure you start most of them. Which has me wondering if you think your threads aren't getting the limelight you feel they deserve.

I didn't start this as a Covid related thread, (if it lasts, we can move onto other issues) but one that people could have a mature discussion about the British Government, how it is performing and it's effect on NSC posters in general, like we used to able to do. (And why I didn't put it on the good news thread).

(I know - optimistic to say the least )

Let's be clear: you also didn't start this thread to be a mature discussion about the British government, you started this thread to discuss supposedly different treatments between a thread on Trump and a thread on the UK government. As I've already covered above, there is absolutely no difference at all, despite what you think and may still maintain.

In now trying to make this a thread about UK government performance, you've taken your own thread off-topic.

Good idea

Mods, can we change the title to 'General discussion about the British Government'

But I'm beginning to think there are a significant number of posters on here that make it impossible to have a mature discussion on NSC anymore. And the worst part is that it means [MENTION=33885]Badger Boy[/MENTION] [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] and [MENTION=34242]Neville's Breakfast[/MENTION] were right all along

No, no we can't change the title because if someone opened a thread called "British Government" your opening post does not discuss that in any way.

I'm taking the dog out now. I can't wait to see where this has gone In an hour or so.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I've said it a number of times - because separate forums is a shit idea. Designed for the brainless that don't understand that you don't HAVE to open and read a thread.



Possibly for the first time in the history of man Plooks, we're in complete agreement.

Looks like there has been some sort of incident in the Bear Pit. Several inmates have been evacuated

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

During the Covid epidemic Britain has suffered more than 65,000 Excess deaths.

I believe that this is an appalling result, especially considering that we had significant notice from Italy, Spain and France of what was coming and the issues it could cause, together with the fact that we are an Island with complete control over our borders.

I believe this was primarily caused by a lack of focused leadership, with the Government following decisions, on the whole, made by other organisations in the UK (Sporting events, lockdown, testing, quarantine, facemasks) rather than taking a lead and bringing in these measures in a timely and urgent fashion themselves.

It was then exacerbated by further individual issues which I don't believe were handled well (PPE supply, movement of untested patients into care homes, delay in care home testing, publishing of figures for hospitals only, Pure number of tests taking priority over turnaround of tests, Cummings trip, Complete failure of track and trace app).

Now I am sure there are posters on here who do not share my view, so maybe they would like to post with the reasons that they believe the excess deaths to be reasonable or good for a country in the UK's situation.

If we can manage to discuss this without insults etc, maybe we can start to discuss other things which effect the majority of posters here

(If it starts going bear pit, I'll report it to the mods myself)

Hi Watford, I'll reply. Politically I'm very similar to you, I believe from reading your posts. We're usually on the same side of an argument. I don't see Covid as a political issue however. I think any government would have struggled whatever its hue. Right up to the Cummings incident I'm not going to criticise them for their response - there were mistakes, sure, but many were understandable mistakes that any government may have made.

I give them credit for following scientific advice in the early days. As it turns out, the advisors were of similar minds to the Swedish advisors, who were ultimately proved wrong. By all accounts it was Johnson who eventually overruled them and started the lockdown earlier, and its ironic, but a fact of politics, that he gets criticism for locking down too late.

The biggest errors were in preparation, not having stocks of PPE, which I think goes back to the Cameron government, the situation with care homes where blame can probably be shared, although has any country stopped this thing getting into care homes? One of the biggest reasons for the total number of deaths is our crowded NHS with poor infrastructure - huge numbers of people who died from covid caught it in hospital - this goes back government after government - we can blame the Tories, sure, but I prefer to blame the country as a whole, its not exactly a secret that the Tories limit funding for public services and yet they keep being elected. Again, it's ironic that Johnson is the first Tory leader in a long time to appear serious about putting large investment in the NHS, but covid beat him to the punch.

In comparing us to other nations you have to accept that the nature of London as a city meant we were always going to be hit hard. The sheer volume of people coming here from all over the world, the packed public transport in what may be the perfect climate conditions for the virus, it was going to get out of hand. New York very similar. Short of closing our borders at an early stage, it was always going to be bad here.

We could and should have been more prepared for that outcome. It will be interesting to know what was actually done during February when the enquiry is out, and what the advisors advice was at the time.

Coming out of lockdown is a bit chaotic, my frustration is its not happening quicker, like many. The government is being quite restrained. I'm not quite sure what the end goal is, it feels like they want to eradicate the virus but that isn't possible, but as we've got much better at testing it, we're going to have to learn to live with it, 'just like flu' to use that horrendous phrase.

In summary, we were always going to be worse hit than many countries, mistakes were made as they were always going to be when dealing with a novel situation, and some fault must be placed on the advisors, on previous governments and the general long term malaise in our NHS for there being avoidable excess deaths. Certainly we've had no Churchillian response, no efforts that the history books will look back on and say 'well done Mr Johnson', but politicising this doesn't really help us. I'd certainly look more favourably on them if it wasn't for the Cummings debacle, however.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Oh, and I'm in agreement with you, I think UK politics should be on the main board, as by and large there is intellectual discussion on there - alo gside a few angry people with nothing intelligent to say, but they're usually on the ignore list. No different to threads discussing the Albion where there will always be some tools throwing insults around about our players and manager. Again, on the ignore list.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Oh, and I'm in agreement with you, I think UK politics should be on the main board, as by and large there is intellectual discussion on there - alo gside a few angry people with nothing intelligent to say, but they're usually on the ignore list. No different to threads discussing the Albion where there will always be some tools throwing insults around about our players and manager. Again, on the ignore list.

KG, in my opinion you are one of the better posters on NSC. You do not insult the views of others and you do not make snide comments then try to look like butter wouldn’t melt....unlike certain other posters. There are people on here who have driven me away from engaging about politics and I don’t think I’m the only one. If there were more like you then we wouldn’t need a Bear Pit.

 

[AlbionBro]

NSC has been saved by the bear pit.

Certain posters pushing their repetitive and spiteful agendas.

Something had to be done, and now NSC has pulled through the growing toxification of the internet and has a bright future.

I hope you don't mind me adding my perspective. I think the media has driven this breed of people by hate campaigns towards this present government, therefore stirring up the simmering Corbynites. This has then transferred through the nation. The media are the real guilty parties in this; perhaps we have a few that post on this site?

 

[nicko31]

I hope you don't mind me adding my perspective. I think the media has driven this breed of people by hate campaigns towards this present government, therefore stirring up the simmering Corbynites. This has then transferred through the nation. The media are the real guilty parties in this; perhaps we have a few that post on this site?

Censor NSC, censor the media, way to go....

 

[Chicken Run]

Censor NSC, censor the media, way to go....

And another pit resident arrives.....

 

[Blue3]

For what it's worth my view is NSC is the poorer for separating out Bear pit and Coronavirus into sub forums, this only came about because of Brexit and the unresolved arguments between the two camps, now any subject that doesn't fit the criteria is shipped out of the main page, it makes NSC a poorer place to pop in for a visit

 

[dingodan]

It's probably because there isn't that much disagreement about Trump.

Even those who don't agree with every criticism levelled at him probably don't feel inclined to strongly defend him either.

I'm probably one of his biggest defenders on here, and I think he's a moron.

 

[Blue3]

Bozza you said

" My intention was that NO new threads get started there. All threads get started here and they will be moved to TBP if they become toxic and hostile"

Did you make your thoughts public ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Hi Watford, I'll reply. Politically I'm very similar to you, I believe from reading your posts. We're usually on the same side of an argument. I don't see Covid as a political issue however. I think any government would have struggled whatever its hue. Right up to the Cummings incident I'm not going to criticise them for their response - there were mistakes, sure, but many were understandable mistakes that any government may have made.

I give them credit for following scientific advice in the early days. As it turns out, the advisors were of similar minds to the Swedish advisors, who were ultimately proved wrong. By all accounts it was Johnson who eventually overruled them and started the lockdown earlier, and its ironic, but a fact of politics, that he gets criticism for locking down too late.

The biggest errors were in preparation, not having stocks of PPE, which I think goes back to the Cameron government, the situation with care homes where blame can probably be shared, although has any country stopped this thing getting into care homes? One of the biggest reasons for the total number of deaths is our crowded NHS with poor infrastructure - huge numbers of people who died from covid caught it in hospital - this goes back government after government - we can blame the Tories, sure, but I prefer to blame the country as a whole, its not exactly a secret that the Tories limit funding for public services and yet they keep being elected. Again, it's ironic that Johnson is the first Tory leader in a long time to appear serious about putting large investment in the NHS, but covid beat him to the punch.

In comparing us to other nations you have to accept that the nature of London as a city meant we were always going to be hit hard. The sheer volume of people coming here from all over the world, the packed public transport in what may be the perfect climate conditions for the virus, it was going to get out of hand. New York very similar. Short of closing our borders at an early stage, it was always going to be bad here.

We could and should have been more prepared for that outcome. It will be interesting to know what was actually done during February when the enquiry is out, and what the advisors advice was at the time.

Coming out of lockdown is a bit chaotic, my frustration is its not happening quicker, like many. The government is being quite restrained. I'm not quite sure what the end goal is, it feels like they want to eradicate the virus but that isn't possible, but as we've got much better at testing it, we're going to have to learn to live with it, 'just like flu' to use that horrendous phrase.

In summary, we were always going to be worse hit than many countries, mistakes were made as they were always going to be when dealing with a novel situation, and some fault must be placed on the advisors, on previous governments and the general long term malaise in our NHS for there being avoidable excess deaths. Certainly we've had no Churchillian response, no efforts that the history books will look back on and say 'well done Mr Johnson', but politicising this doesn't really help us. I'd certainly look more favourably on them if it wasn't for the Cummings debacle, however.

Thanks for the very well thought out and reasoned reply. I can't see this thread getting any better than this and there are obviously posters who wouldn't want it on the main board, so I'm finished thanks [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] (for your time, patience and Forum ) if you want to do whatever with it.

This is Covid discussion and, per broad consensus does not belong on the main board. There are regular "how are Boris et al getting on with Covid?" threads in the Covid-19 sub-forum. In fact, as I type this, and without going away to check, I'm pretty sure you start most of them. Which has me wondering if you think your threads aren't getting the limelight you feel they deserve.
.

(And I took over the regular monthly update on the Government's handling of Covid from US. If I had done it originally do you really think there would have been 3 positive and only 2 negative options )

 

[WATFORD zero]

I predict that whatever topic you want to discuss will remain cordial until such time as someone dares to have a different opinion to yours.

Your just gutted that only you and three of your cohorts are left in the pit salivating like rabid dogs, never mind it’ll be August soon and you can start a new thread on the governments handling of the COVID Virus [emoji6]

(Not edited by Chicken Run 3 mins ago)

But you’re not mistaken, you’re just fishing [emoji6] You’re lonely in the Bear Pit and want to put yourself on the main stage, it’s all about you after all, right [emoji6]

And another pit resident arrives.....

Me taking the piss out of the lack of response to your Race fishing thread over in the Bear Pit really did cut deep didn't it

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?380960-Wimpy-Portslade

 

[keaton]

I hope you don't mind me adding my perspective. I think the media has driven this breed of people by hate campaigns towards this present government, therefore stirring up the simmering Corbynites. This has then transferred through the nation. The media are the real guilty parties in this; perhaps we have a few that post on this site?

I'm not sure it's purely the left driven to extremes by a bias media.

 

[Chicken Run]

Me taking the piss out of the lack of response to your Race fishing thread over in the Bear Pit really did cut deep didn't it

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?380960-Wimpy-Portslade

[emoji23] Give it up you’ve been found out and you’re embarrassing yourself [emoji23]