Trouble at the FA Cup Semi...

[ArfurW8]

If the trouble was in the Millwall end,populated with people who bought their tickets from Millwall FC then surely Millwall FC will be deemed responsible for the behaviour of those fans.

 

[BadFish]

No all I am saying is that if the eye witness account of west ham turning up for a fight is true then they have equal responsibility. I also say that Brighton's element is not insignificant - it stopped my dad going and I have seen Brighton cause serious trouble. I also will say that the press created a myth around a small club called Millwall who had a problem but actually Spurs, West Ham, Man United and Chelsea to name but four big clubs caused far more serious trouble than millwall ever have.

Every club has a 'not insignificant' element. I don't really understand why you are bringing up Brighton's on a thread about Millwall and possibly West Ham?

So you are suggesting that Millwall are no worse than any other club? Again I point to the discussions on here after the Millwall games at the Amex which describe far worse behaviour than 99% of the clubs who have visited. That can hardly be disregarded as press violence? or perhaps they were West Ham fans pretending to be Millwall fans to give them a bad name........or perhaps they were journalists?

 

[Blackadder]

I wont have this. Born and bred Brighton fan. Father Brighton fan. Relative played for Brighton, Grandad followed Brighton's results and probably Great Grandad's would likely have drilled on the Goldstone before being shot at on the Western Front. If you dont think Brighton have had a problem then you clearly have not (as I have) been to nearly 70 away games with Brighton. Bit this is not the point. All I am saying is that if and it is an if west ham or whoever organised trouble in the Millwall end then they also have responsibility. Millwall fans are not the bogey men. They have a problem, but so do many many clubs. They also will get a bad press, as trouble by Brighton or Spurs does not have the same easy headline.

Just noticed you haven't answered any of my questions "aggro boy". How many times have you watched us recently?

 

[GreersElbow]

If you dont think Brighton have had a problem then you clearly have not (as I have) been to nearly 70 away games with Brighton. Bit this is not the point.

No, this isn't a point. Infact, I'm struggling to find any sense in your argument.

These scenes are in a stand, with women and children surrounded by the violence. Your comment is "have had", which is past tense. It's quite rare to see organised violence within Brighton, and I think extremely rare to see us 'fighting our own'. Yes, we had a problem with hooliganism, we may have a very small group that still is active today. The point of the matter is; this is Millwall. They're notorious for this, what makes it more sickening is the fact it's live on TV for the world to see, children and women surrounded by the senseless violence.

You're arguing to a no-end. I don't think you even understand what you're on about.

 

[British Grenadier]

Working class pride, if you think that Brighton are as bad as Millwall, here are some statistics for you

6 Brighton "fans" arrested at away games last season.
39 Millwall "fans" arrested at away games last season.

Page 10 for the statistics.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118118/fbo-season-2011-121.pdf

 

[ExmouthExile]

From the Millwall Forum:

One bloke had his top off and a huge palarse tattoo, even they can get brave when on the sauce. Millwall on millwall. I have my doubts.

Read more: Millwall Forum - Block p

 

[Gullys Cats]

[yt]SO-KGIrDsmc[/yt]

Poor kid.

Sad times

 

[Buzzer]

Let's just dispel this myth once and for all that Liverpool fans weren't to blame for Heysel.


From Red and White Kop independent Liverpool website:


John Smith had told reporters that he believed the trouble to be the fault of ‘Chelsea fans’ - it was nonsense, clutching at straws. There had been fans of other clubs there, there always is in major cup finals, but not in any significant numbers.


RAWK Writers Archive




From a much respected book 'From Where I Was Standing' by Liverpool fan Chris Rowland:


All I can say is that none of these things were witnessed by any of us. Although it did not feel quite like the usual Liverpool crowd that fateful evening in Brussels, and much as though we would love to be able to shed some of the responsibility and have it shared by Chelsea or any other club’s fans, right-wing extremists or the Mafia, the fact is that when twenty six names to be charged with manslaughter were released, most had Merseyside addresses.


Heysel, 25 Years On – Book Extract | The Tomkins Times | News, Opinion, Statistics and Discussion about Liverpool FC Football Club

The latter especially blows out the water any conspiracy theories about Chelsea hoolies being the troublemakers. Now back to this binfest.

 

[Buzzer]

Working Class Pride - stop digging. It's clear you've tried to hijack this thread and you've come unstuck big time. Fair play for shoe-horning in once again that some ancestor of yours died in the First World War. You do like telling that.

 

[OzMike]

That Blatter chap will have a field day now whenever the subject of England hosting the Word Cup is brought up.
These images have been shown worldwide now.
Being reported on TV news here as I type.

 

[topbanana36]

I'm not in the know at all. Ive just followed Brighton for a very long time and I have no idea about that game. I had friends at the game (certainly not trouble makers) and they told me about serious trouble that day in the ground.

Was at that Southend game in August 2000 remember it well (just got married) and to my knowledge there was no Millwall. Fun at the seaside definately just the usual handsome faces that have followed Albion for many years.

 

[Guinness Boy]

From the horses mouth - or rather the Millwall fans' keyboard

This s*** has gone on for years, thing is, people usually step in to stop it. This is Millwall, what you surprised about? The only thing I'd be surprised about is if they aint Millwall. And if they weren't, f*** 'em.

 

[Horses Arse]

Anyone able to translate this post on the Millwall forum?

what a gutter they dident throw you off the top tere you w**k staine.

I added the *'s

 

[Hotchilidog]

I feel sorry for the club management, the team and the reasonably behaved Millwall fans whose club's name is constantly dragged though the mud by the significant amount of pond scum who follow that team. Give them a big game and they just can't help themselves, googling morons. As for the every team is just as bad, who's fans would you rather encounter on a train carriage, Brighton or Millwall, it's not just the violence it is the general intimidatory nature of some of their support that trades on their reputation that makes them particularly unpleasant to encounter.

The reason why away days at the New Dump are so much fun are A: we nearly always win, and B: thanks to the train station arrangements you hardly come into contact with them at all. When inside the ground you have the feral chavs in the upper tier to the left, and the fat balding boors to the right in the lower tier living down to their stereotype roles of complete and utter bell ends with no interest in watching the game.

I utterly despair for all those at Millwall both supporters and management who just want to get on with being a decent side, as these twats will just not let them be.

 

[User removed 4]

Eye witness came on the radio and explained there were West Ham and Chelsea hooligans in the ground to have a go at Millwall. I am not surprised. I hope West Ham and Chelsea are made to play games behind closed doors and are both relegated. Of course the presenter was not interested and Millwall will take all of the blame. Nothing will happen to West Ham or Chelsea of course. They will throw the book at Millwall tho.

What a load of bollocks , yesterday was millwall fighting with millwall , the " eye witness" was probably making a vain attempt to deflect attention away from millwall .

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I feel sorry for the club management, the team and the reasonably behaved Millwall fans whose club's name is constantly dragged though the mud by the significant amount of pond scum who follow that team. Give them a big game and they just can't help themselves, googling morons. As for the every team is just as bad, who's fans would you rather encounter on a train carriage, Brighton or Millwall, it's not just the violence it is the general intimidatory nature of some of their support that trades on their reputation that makes them particularly unpleasant to encounter.

The reason why away days at the New Dump are so much fun are A: we nearly always win, and B: thanks to the train station arrangements you hardly come into contact with them at all. When inside the ground you have the feral chavs in the upper tier to the left, and the fat balding boors to the right in the lower tier living down to their stereotype roles of complete and utter bell ends with no interest in watching the game.

I utterly despair for all those at Millwall both supporters and management who just want to get on with being a decent side, as these twats will just not let them be.

I agree with this. The game really doesn't need these goons. People have a right to go to matchs and not be intimidated by these idiots. The only solution is to ban Millwall supporters from away grounds.

 

[empire]

from a newspaper qoute

I was at the stadium about 30 yards away from where this all happened so I'd appreciate if you took the time to read my account of what actually happened.


First of all - I resent the comment 'Millwall are the scum of the earth'. That little girl you saw there is Millwall. My 5 year old nephew and my 60 year old dad who were with me at the game today are Millwall. We, along with 99% of the Millwall fans in that stadium are no different to any other fans in the world.

The people you saw in that footage are the scum of the earth - there is no defending or denying that and you wont find a single Millwall fan who disagrees with you. We are a club who gets an average home attendance of 12,000 fans - there were 35,000 Millwall fans at Wembley today. Where have they come from? Your guess is as good as mine, but I can assure you thousands of them have no affiliation with the club whatsoever.

What ACTUALLY caused the mass brawl?

The brawl actually started about 10 minutes before the cameras seem to have picked up on it. First of all - everyone in that part of the ground was pretty much standing at the time, because we had a lot of possession at that end of the pitch and were having a decent spell. From what we could work out, there were 1 or 2 drunk guys who started pushing and shoving (we didnt see how it started). This simmered on for a while and they were stumbling across rows knocking in to others. The people they were knocking into were with their families and obviously reacted and told them where to go (like anyone would). The drunk guys then started on these people.

Here is where it escalated. At this stage, at any ground in England, you'd normally expect stewards and/or police to step in and sort it out. I can tell you, and you will see yourself if you can find a wide enough angle, there must have been no fewer than 40 stewards standing at the front of that section of stand who were just watching the fighting and doing NOTHING. Not radioing for help, not going to get help, not even standing up - just watching. There were police in the corners of the ground also watching and doing nothing. There were, I'd estimate, no fewer than 100 Millwall fans trying to get the attention of the stewards and police to no avail whatsoever, while these idiots had been brawling and knocking into them and their families for the last 5-10 minutes while they were trying to watch the game.

Then Wigan score - effectively ending the game for us.

At this stage, the drunk dickheads from neighbouring stands had decided to come and see for themselves what was going on - I'd guess about 15 guys came over. This chaos went on for about 10-15 minutes before the police came wading in from the tunnel indiscriminately hitting people with truncheons including the people trying to defend their families. This caused people to turn their anger towards the police - and to be honest, while I don't condone their actions, having watched that chaos unfold for 10 minutes, I understood them. What you saw on TV was this last segment of events - not the build up.

Now let me ask you - what can any club do if there are 2-3 people who turn up and just want to have a fight? What more could Millwall as a club have done? We don't control the police. We don't control the stewards. Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

 

[CHAPPERS]

You have to wonder, if it WAS West Ham or Chelsea or ANYONE else, how it took until after half time when they were getting beat for it to kick off. Surely they would have been found out early on.

 

[Se20]

I've seen enough of Millwall at close quarters over the years to know they have a large thug element.
All this" tiny minority "of fans is cobblers, they revel in their notoriety, and play up to it at every opportunity .
Last season at the Den summed up their fans to a tee, after the game we were offered out by a bloke in a wheelchair !!

 

[Simster]

Last season at the Den summed up their fans to a tee, after the game we were offered out by a bloke in a wheelchair !!

A bloke in a wheelchair would only ever fancy his chances against a Nigel.