Troops to Teachers

[Herr Tubthumper]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...-Forces-to-be-fast-tracked-into-teaching.html

I have no issue with troops becoming teachers but allowing them to bypass having a degree is not the way to do it. Surely, amongst the many talents required to teach successfully, we want teachers to be highly educated in their chosen subject?

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Why not? I dont have a degree but i have more letters after my name than you could shake a stick at. This interests me as i have taught in the Army for two years, enjoyed it, and if the financial package was good enough i might do this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why not? I dont have a degree but i have more letters after my name than you could shake a stick at. This interests me as i have taught in the Army for two years, enjoyed it, and if the financial package was good enough i might do this.

It's my view that if you want to demonstrate a solid understanding of an academic subject the best way to do this is with a degree certificate. And this should be a minimum requirement for teachers. It also undermines the profession if people can be fast tracked and bypass a piece of paper which shows they know their subject.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

My other half is a teacher and one of the teaching assistants at her school has not been accepted to do a PGCE course because she doesn't have a Masters. Unfortunately this is the hypocrisy of the current government. People with classroom experience are not allowed to train to teach but people without aren't. I'm sure there are many ex-military that would make decent teachers but it's not as if the two careers are that similar.

In addition, the main motive of bringing ex military in is to raise the standard of behaviour amongst pupils. Sadly the board of governors at most schools don't like excluding people. Looks bad for their figures and impacts in the perception of the school therefore only the very worst are ever kicked out. I imagine it will also take a while to adjust to the fact that teachers can do very little to actually discipline students.

A colleague of mine came out of the Army and taught new recruits in a military prep school but jacked it in because he was fed up with how he had to pussyfoot around the kids and how far from the reality of army life it is. Mainstream schools will be worse.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Gen Sir Mike Jackson, former head of the Army, rejected the idea that former soldiers, sailors or airmen without degrees did not have the skills needed to teach.
He said: “I know from first-hand experience that ex-Armed Forces personnel have a huge amount to offer across the board. So many of the skills they have learnt in the military – leadership, determination, teamwork, discipline, respect – are naturally transferable to the classroom.

Mr Jackson seems to have forgotten teachers also need a subject to teach.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

One thing i have come to learn in life is a peice of paper that is used to show something proves nothing. I can see why people would be provoked by what the government is suggesting but i think its a personality, experience and determination that you need to teach not education. I reckon i could teach modern history better than most and i can without a doubt teach combat pistol shooting better than most; so i was thinking inner city london or central hove.

 

[drew]

I'm not sure I agree with fast tracking into the teaching profession unless they have already demonstrated an aptitude for training. Why not consider fast tracking for the emergency services such as the Police or Fire Brigade. At the end of the day, once they have served their country isn't it just about ensuring they get a job, any job?

 

[clapham_gull]

One thing i have come to learn in life is a peice of paper that is used to show something proves nothing. I can see why people would be provoked by what the government is suggesting but i think its a personality, experience and determination that you need to teach not education. I reckon i could teach modern history better than most and i can without a doubt teach combat pistol shooting better than most; so i was thinking inner city london or central hove.

Whilst you may not personally need a piece of paper the job involves ensuring that your students get one.

Can't see how you possibly teach for example Maths unless you have at least a degree in it.

On the subject of the current quality of teachers, I recently passed a Masters and at least two teachers (as in taking the course not teaching it) bailed out.

Pure anecdotal of course.

 

[BadFish]

My other half is a teacher and one of the teaching assistants at her school has not been accepted to do a PGCE course because she doesn't have a Masters. Unfortunately this is the hypocrisy of the current government. People with classroom experience are not allowed to train to teach but people without aren't. I'm sure there are many ex-military that would make decent teachers but it's not as if the two careers are that similar.

In addition, the main motive of bringing ex military in is to raise the standard of behaviour amongst pupils. Sadly the board of governors at most schools don't like excluding people. Looks bad for their figures and impacts in the perception of the school therefore only the very worst are ever kicked out. I imagine it will also take a while to adjust to the fact that teachers can do very little to actually discipline students.

A colleague of mine came out of the Army and taught new recruits in a military prep school but jacked it in because he was fed up with how he had to pussyfoot around the kids and how far from the reality of army life it is. Mainstream schools will be worse.

A military ethos in schools would be a very interesting idea, especially without the ability to back it up. As soon as those soldier teachers threaten students with a punishment and then find they are not allowed to back it up they will be just as hamstrung as the teachers we have now. The question will be whether that soldier teacher will have the ability to find a way round the situation and motivate their students in the way many many good teachers do. I can't really see how a military background will make any difference to this.

I worked in outdoor education with some ex and serving soldier and most of them only had one way of deal with the kids and little to fall back on when it didn't work. Unsurprising really as it takes experience of working with kids and an ability to understand and relate to them to get through to them in this day an age.

 

[BadFish]

I'm not sure I agree with fast tracking into the teaching profession unless they have already demonstrated an aptitude for training. Why not consider fast tracking for the emergency services such as the Police or Fire Brigade. At the end of the day, once they have served their country isn't it just about ensuring they get a job, any job?

It does say their would be a rigorous selection process but i do see your point. If someone from any walk of life shows aptitude for teaching then why should they too get fast tracked?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Whilst you may not personally need a piece of paper the job involves ensuring that your students get one.

Can't see how you possibly teach for example Maths unless you have at least a degree in it.

Quite.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I don't think all the teachers on my training course had degrees.

You don't necessarily need a teaching qualification to teach.

 

[clapham_gull]

Wouldn't have a problem with the Government paying for troops to get a degree in the subject they wish to choose.

That's gonna happen though is it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One thing i have come to learn in life is a peice of paper that is used to show something proves nothing.

A good attitude to have for someone who has just indicated they want to teach kids to get qualifications.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Wouldn't have a problem with the Government paying for troops to get a degree in the subject they wish to choose.

Personally I'd extend this to anyone like it used to be.

 

[Drebin]

A military ethos in schools would be a very interesting idea, especially without the ability to back it up. As soon as those soldier teachers threaten students with a punishment and then find they are not allowed to back it up they will be just as hamstrung as the teachers we have now. The question will be whether that soldier teacher will have the ability to find a way round the situation and motivate their students in the way many many good teachers do. I can't really see how a military background will make any difference to this.

I worked in outdoor education with some ex and serving soldier and most of them only had one way of deal with the kids and little to fall back on when it didn't work. Unsurprising really as it takes experience of working with kids and an ability to understand and relate to them to get through to them in this day an age.

Nail on head. The power balance between two adults in the army is totally different to the responsibility a teacher has to motivate their pupils and help them see the benefits and pleasure that can be had from learning.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Whilst you may not personally need a piece of paper the job involves ensuring that your students get one.

Can't see how you possibly teach for example Maths unless you have at least a degree in it.

On the subject of the current quality of teachers, I recently passed a Masters and at least two teachers (as in taking the course not teaching it) bailed out.

Pure anecdotal of course.

I guess me turning up to my first class and saying 'hey guys, bits of paper prove nothing' and they tear up the GCSE books and i get fired by about 9!

A military ethos in schools would be a very interesting idea, especially without the ability to back it up. As soon as those soldier teachers threaten students with a punishment and then find they are not allowed to back it up they will be just as hamstrung as the teachers we have now. The question will be whether that soldier teacher will have the ability to find a way round the situation and motivate their students in the way many many good teachers do. I can't really see how a military background will make any difference to this.

I worked in outdoor education with some ex and serving soldier and most of them only had one way of deal with the kids and little to fall back on when it didn't work. Unsurprising really as it takes experience of working with kids and an ability to understand and relate to them to get through to them in this day an age.

The quality of teaching for military instructors is very good now, it is about the development of the individual not route 1 shouting. I know LOTS of ex-military as you have described above but there is a new breed coming (its all fluffy now!)

Wouldn't have a problem with the Government paying for troops to get a degree in the subject they wish to choose.

That's gonna happen though is it.

The government has an EXCELLENT scheme for those leaving the military to get a degree; you lose your financial renumeration for other education or training programs (6k if you have been in a while, 3k if not) and they will cover all the fees to get you a degree.

 

[The Optimist]

Can't see how you possibly teach for example Maths unless you have at least a degree in it.

I was an A-Level Maths teacher for several years and trained in schools. We were told only 25% of Maths teachers in schools had Maths degrees. The problem is that if you've got a good Maths degree you can earn a lot more money than teaching will pay.

 

[clapham_gull]

And of course many serving and ex service people will have degrees already.

Sorry to sound cynical but why not encourage people in industry into teaching as well, many of which won't have degrees either.

We all know the answer.

Strange strange hypocrisy from the Government. One day we here that the bar to teaching should higher and now it appears to be lowered for ex.troops.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

A good attitude to have for someone who has just indicated they want to teach kids to get qualifications.

A good attitude to have; you believe in teaching for qualifications, i believe in teaching to provide a foundation for life.