[Brighton] Transport in Brighton TIME FOR A UNDERGROUND SYSTEM.

[The Clamp]

shopping is a leisure activity and social one too for the youth. Brighton is busier than i remember many years ago, as is Eastbourne, Tunbridge Wells. maybe smaller town centres, or those without a focal point are declining but large ones with the "go to" shops aren't going anywhere.

It'll peak and downturn.

 

[BensGrandad]

Would it not be cheaper to re instate the tram system that was about in the 50s but obviously updated.Perhaps they could look at 1 sq mile car exclusion zone from the old clocktower cross roads except taxis any time and delivery vehicles at certain specified times ie 8pm -8am.

 

[vegster]

We can't even build a by-pass for Worthing and Arundel....

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Underground trains, monorail and tram systems all require massive infrastructure to operate, so would be prohibitively expensive to introduce.

Electric automated shuttle buses, operating on regular routes throughout the city centre would require zero new infrastructure and are already in public use in Australia.

If the council had the will they could invest in a fleet of these today, pedestrianise the city centre, and reduce pollution and increase public safety in one.

 

[The Clamp]

The local councils in Sussex arent the slightest bit interested in improving anyone's lot with helpful schemes. They'd prefer to just throw up high rise monstrosities in Shoreham and Lancing to rake in millions of pounds in Council Tax. The people who have to live under the shadow of these blocks can go whistle.

 

[Gwylan]

It will take a little longer in London maybe but Brighton city centre will be unrecognisable in 10 - 20 yrs.

In the last 16 years the number of cars on the road has increased by 5.5 million.
That figure has shown a steady rise with absolutely no sign of abating.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/299972/average-age-of-cars-on-the-road-in-the-united-kingdom/

You can't do sums. That graph you link says the increase over last 16 years is 3.9m. not 5.5m

That's not really an increase in relative terms as the population has increased by about 6million in that period so 3.9m is pretty much what we'd expect to see.

What neither you nor The Clamp take into account is the dramatic change that is going to be rendered by autonomous cars. Predicting traffic for 20 years time is pretty much akin to those predictions in the 1880s that London would be deep in horse droppings in 30 years. The arrival of self-driving vehicles is going to completely disrupt all transport predictions ... and Brighton won't be immune from this.

 

[Stat Brother]

We can't even build a by-pass for Worthing and Arundel....

Exactly

Anybody thinking any major new transport system could be introduced is clearly a little bit special.
To then think it could be none on the cheap is worrying.

Edinburgh's tram system opens – £375m over budget and three years late
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/01/edinburgh-tram-system-opens

We're stuck with what we've got, they'll be no new trams, undergrounds, ferries, jet packs and sadly no waterslides.

What has to happen is the current infrastructure needs to be made to work for everybody and moved away from being so car-centric.
That isn't to be done in a punitive way, ie even more expensive parking etc, but in such an all encompassing way that leaves us thinking 'I'm not going to drive into Brighton because x,y &z are better'.

 

[The Clamp]

You can't do sums. That graph you link says the increase over last 16 years is 3.9m. not 5.5m

That's not really an increase in relative terms as the population has increased by about 6million in that period so 3.9m is pretty much what we'd expect to see.

What neither you nor The Clamp take into account is the dramatic change that is going to be rendered by autonomous cars. Predicting traffic for 20 years time is pretty much akin to those predictions in the 1880s that London would be deep in horse droppings in 30 years. The arrival of self-driving vehicles is going to completely disrupt all transport predictions ... and Brighton won't be immune from this.

Autonomous cars will only make town centres less traffic busy. How will robot cars save department stores?

 

[Stat Brother]

You can't do sums. That graph you link says the increase over last 16 years is 3.9m. not 5.5m
.

Close enough, never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[BensGrandad]

When a new ground was suggested on the Shoreham Power Station site an underground system for access was suggested IIRC it was estimated the cost would be about £80m per mile so the cost of a city underground system would be prohibitive.better off providing some bike stands for attaching bikes to but make sure that the riders adhere to the traffic regulations.re 1 way street, pavements traffic lights etc.

 

[mothy]

Outside your house? Essential traffic would obviously be permitted.

Fair enough. Sounds a great idea - my kids would be able to play in the street without through traffic using rat runs

 

[Tricky Dicky]

To be fair in about ten years time the centres of our cities will have far less traffic anyway. As shops disappear, which they will do. As our parents generation dies out the likes of Debenhams and WHSmith will fall by the wayside. Less delivery traffic and less need for cars if you have nothing heavy to carry back.
All major consumable shopping is done out of town in places like Hollingbury or the Holmbush centre.
Within a decade or two most people will only be visiting the centre of towns to meet friends and get food, or get pissed (and we are doing less and less of that).
It will take a little longer in London maybe but Brighton city centre will be unrecognisable in 10 - 20 yrs.

I doubt it. There's still the same number of "shops" but the type will be different. What will change is the driverless cars plus the drone shuttles that will start appearing. Drone transport will be the next big thing.

 

[beorhthelm]

Underground trains, monorail and tram systems all require massive infrastructure to operate, so would be prohibitively expensive to introduce.

Electric automated shuttle buses, operating on regular routes throughout the city centre would require zero new infrastructure and are already in public use in Australia.

If the council had the will they could invest in a fleet of these today, pedestrianise the city centre, and reduce pollution and increase public safety in one.

councils dont own or run the buses. fortunately, commercial operations do which will switch to electric and hybrid as the old rolling stock is replaced, already occurring in London.

 

[BensGrandad]

councils dont own or run the buses. fortunately, commercial operations do which will switch to electric and hybrid as the old rolling stock is replaced, already occurring in London.

Didnt BRIGHTON Council own and run the Blue buses in the 50s possibly 60s

 

[The Clamp]

I doubt it. There's still the same number of "shops" but the type will be different. What will change is the driverless cars plus the drone shuttles that will start appearing. Drone transport will be the next big thing.

I agree with what you say about drone shuttles. The problem is, apart from clothing shops like Hollister the shops that are closing aren't being replaced with anything except nomadic shops run by dodgy looking Persians selling etched mirrors, wheelie suitcases, stolen phones and Michael Jackson mugs.

So town centres will soon be the exclusive domain of Arabian shop owners, the council estaters that shop in their stores and slightly bent looking teenage boys shopping for clothes together, holding hands and sitting in cafes drinking half caf double decaf mocha ice cream, discussing their studies and telling each other what world changing, beautiful people they are.

Gone are the days of lads and lasses piling into town on the bus, new shirt and an album and down the boozer until closing. I mourn the future.

 

[Peter Grummit]

Upgrade and extend the Volks Railway tracks to take DLR-type light rail as far as West Street then up to the station. Trams on all the other main routes. We had them pre-war.

http://bjournal.co/should-brighton-get-a-tram-system/

Replace the local life-expired class 313 train rolling stock that runs coastway services with new, accessible tram-trains that run through Brighton station, stopping at Clock Tower, bottom of West Street then east coastway services turn right for i360, King Alfred, West End, Lagoon and Shoreham harbour. West coastway tram-trains turn left for the Pier, Madeira Drive, Black Rock and Marina proper, possibly utilising Volks alignment. Heritage VR units could possibly operate in parallel, subject to crash-worthiness refitting. Business case improved by the need to replace the 313s anyway and the cheaper running costs of more modern stock.

This would free up platform capacity at Brighton (because through trains spend less time in platforms than terminating ones) to allow direct cross-Brighton coastway services and/or more frequent mainline services. Consider additional car/cycle parking at existing stations.

Cost partly covered by land value uplift (eg King Alfred; Madeira Terraces for business arches). Key driver of integrated sustainable transport/regeneration strategy. Services could be run as separate franchise from Southern if value-for-money or as municipal operation as a public sector comparator, internalising much of the land value uplift to the project for council-owned land/property.

Just an idea.

PG

 

[Tricky Dicky]

I agree with what you say about drone shuttles. The problem is, apart from clothing shops like Hollister the shops that are closing aren't being replaced with anything except nomadic shops run by dodgy looking Persians selling etched mirrors, wheelie suitcases, stolen phones and Michael Jackson mugs.

So town centres will soon be the exclusive domain of Arabian shop owners, the council estaters that shop in their stores and slightly bent looking teenage boys shopping for clothes together, holding hands and sitting in cafes drinking half caf double decaf mocha ice cream, discussing their studies and telling each other what world changing, beautiful people they are.

Gone are the days of lads and lasses piling into town on the bus, new shirt and an album and down the boozer until closing. I mourn the future.

I don't know the future of the high-street, but it will undoubtedly be different. I suspect what will happen is someone with great imagination will come up with novel uses for the shops, something we've not thought of as yet. It would be a shame if they just dissolved to flats. If I knew what the answer was, I'd be a rich man. In Shoreham the town centre is all cafes and nail bars, but at least there are no empty premises - it would be nice to be able to get a good cup of tea somewhere, not just coffee !

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Cycling initiatives fail because they are half arsed, poorly funded and done as last resort to spend funding before it is taken back by central government.

Just painting a couple of miles of tarmac isn't a holistic approach to genuine 21st century transportation issues.

Genuine question, what kind of initiative do you think is needed ? I ask as my journey to work is 4 miles. Every now and then, during a moment of madness, I consider cycling to work. Easy on the way there but almost up hill all the way home. I than come to my senses and jump in the car. It would have to be one hell of an initiative to make me switch - possibly involving something like a button ski lift to get me back up the hills.

 

[vegster]

Hang on, I've got an idea!......




How about we build a Brighton Underground with the £350m a week we now pay in to the EU?... Simples!

 

[BBassic]

Who runs all the car parks in B&H? I'd wager they'd have something to say about reducing car traffic.