Trains need sorted before the really nasty teams come visiting

[Hotchilidog]

I stand to be corrected but the set piece farce that was the Millwall CC tie and some handbags at Stoke a few years back aside have West Ham actually been involved in serious disorder on a regular basis? There was no trouble when they came to withdean, and I think the majority of Albion fans didn't encounter problems at UP on our recent visits either.

Also with Millwall we do not appear to have had any major problems in recent seasons home or away. If people are looking for trouble at these games I've no doubt they will get it, but I suspect it will be away from the stadium rather than at the Amex itself.

The Palace game presents it's own special problems, and I am mystified as to how this is an evening game, but Selhurst managed to cope the last time we were there on a midweek evening too.

High risk games happen every week up and down the country, and whilst violence has not completely left our game it is hardly the free for all it once was as the authorities tend to be all over them.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

And buses to Hassocks for the London folk (Albion fans, not Palace)

 

[Bold Seagull]

I stand to be corrected but the set piece farce that was the Millwall CC tie and some handbags at Stoke a few years back aside have West Ham actually been involved in serious disorder on a regular basis? There was no trouble when they came to withdean, and I think the majority of Albion fans didn't encounter problems at UP on our recent visits either.

Also with Millwall we do not appear to have had any major problems in recent seasons home or away. If people are looking for trouble at these games I've no doubt they will get it, but I suspect it will be away from the stadium rather than at the Amex itself.

The Palace game presents it's own special problems, and I am mystified as to how this is an evening game, but Selhurst managed to cope the last time we were there on a midweek evening too.

High risk games happen every week up and down the country, and whilst violence has not completely left our game it is hardly the free for all it once was as the authorities tend to be all over them.

Perhaps you are right. I remember Havant&Waterlooville played Millwall in a 1st rnd FA cup tie a few years ago, and the police got so paranoid they switched the game to Fratton Park, made it a Cat A or whatever, and it cost Havant over £50k to pay for the game which actually recorded a loss on gate receipts for a tie which should have been a windfall. As it happened 400 Millwall fans turned up without a hint of trouble (I think the police outnumbered them 2-1 in the end!).

 

[watsongooal]

I stand to be corrected but the set piece farce that was the Millwall CC tie and some handbags at Stoke a few years back aside have West Ham actually been involved in serious disorder on a regular basis? There was no trouble when they came to withdean, and I think the majority of Albion fans didn't encounter problems at UP on our recent visits either.

Also with Millwall we do not appear to have had any major problems in recent seasons home or away. If people are looking for trouble at these games I've no doubt they will get it, but I suspect it will be away from the stadium rather than at the Amex itself.

The Palace game presents it's own special problems, and I am mystified as to how this is an evening game, but Selhurst managed to cope the last time we were there on a midweek evening too.

High risk games happen every week up and down the country, and whilst violence has not completely left our game it is hardly the free for all it once was as the authorities tend to be all over them.

I think with the likes of Millwall and West Ham is as much about potential trouble as what actually happens. There are a lot of idiots that follow these and other clubs in the championship- Brum, Forest etc etc- and whilst they may go off with no issues at all- we all know that all its needs is one spark (mouthy chav on the platform, 90th minute offiside winner for one of the clubs etc) for it to kick off. But we need to have all bases covered and I this means sorting something out so that 2500 away fans from these clubs are not streaming out with 18000 of us.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

Another option the powers that be may consider for potential problem games. All away fans MUST travel by organised coach & be issued with match tickets as they get off the coach on the coach. This system has been used for the genteel affairs such as Millwall -Leeds, Cardiff - Swansea & the like in the past. Post match, they can be escorted back to their coaches & sent on their jolly way home to their South London or Hampshire hovels.

There ya go - Problem sorted.

Think this would be a good way to go, as long as they could patrol the coach parks properly. Sod all the Sussex-based Palace scummers

 

[Danny-Boy]

The signalling system simply doesn't accommodate a more frequent service. Nor do the stations at either end of the line.

Whiose fault is that Lord B? It's not like Network Rail and the Train Operating companies (TOCs) haven't had time to plan ahead for this. I have already posted on here that the only reason the shuttle works at all is because Lewes has a spare bay platform, but the fact is there are other places also easat of Lewes that could be used to store stock for after matches e.g. Newhaven Harbour which is only about 10 minutes from Falmer non-stop.

The real blockage point in my experience, given what happened to me BEFORE the game on Saturday is at Brighton station. It seems that NR and the TOCs want to keep the bay platform on the east side for regular services at match-times, and funnel all supporters' trains on to the "mainline" platforms which happen to be right opposite the electronic entry/exit gates.

The result? At Saturday around 2 pm a whole crowd of often considerably drunk Albion and Blackpool fans milled around the central concourse and were then funneled therough the barriers but were not allowed on the platform itself. Result: total chaos. Travellers like myself, who wanted to catch a train to London were physically prevented from getting to our train on Platform 3, when it arrived.

The station staff had to open an emergency exit gate on the west side of the concourse to allow passengers arriving to physically get out of the station rather than brave a rowdy if good-humoured mob. What happened later I dread to think as those even more tanked-up tried to catch a train in time to get to the game.

There is potential for improvement at Brighton, an empty bay on the east side could be relaid with track to give more room for supporters to board trains. This would cost money, but if the club are serious about increasing capacity to 30K for next season, then in my way they should fund improvements in the rail service to enable that number to be taken to and from the ground safely. After all that was a planning requirement fior the stadium in the first place as you well know, Lord B...

 

[Danny-Boy]

Well one thing is a nailed on certainty - if the transport arrangements aren't sorted satisfactorily, then we can say goodbye to the extra 8000 seats.

My take is that one way or another, they need to double capacity on the trains, and sort out some segregation - and I don't believe that "nothing can be done", because it normally can - given some resource.

You can't build a £105 Million stadium, without also improving the transport infrastructure needed to support it.

You said mate. Lord B please note.

 

[Commander]

I stand to be corrected but the set piece farce that was the Millwall CC tie and some handbags at Stoke a few years back aside have West Ham actually been involved in serious disorder on a regular basis? There was no trouble when they came to withdean, and I think the majority of Albion fans didn't encounter problems at UP on our recent visits either.

As somebody else has said, I think it's more about potential trouble than anything. And the difference was at Withdean, that is was just about the most unattractive away game in the league, and teams could only bring a tiny away following. A 2,500 allocation at the Amex is very different, they'll be all over it.

 

[Cantona's Flying Dropkick]

No. You cannot get trains from the east to go into platforms on the west of the station without buggering up the entire signalling system for the entire station.

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm sure platform 3 was used on the Gills game, going straight to Falmer then on to Lewes.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Problem solved!

It's a Route-Master, not a Riot-Master...

 

[Hotchilidog]

I think with the likes of Millwall and West Ham is as much about potential trouble as what actually happens. There are a lot of idiots that follow these and other clubs in the championship- Brum, Forest etc etc- and whilst they may go off with no issues at all- we all know that all its needs is one spark (mouthy chav on the platform, 90th minute offiside winner for one of the clubs etc) for it to kick off. But we need to have all bases covered and I this means sorting something out so that 2500 away fans from these clubs are not streaming out with 18000 of us.

I agree with your analysis as to the potential spark for incidents, indeed it is the mouthy prat on the platform that I fear most in this respect rather than organised violence. For all these games the bars have to remain open afterwards so the crowd can dissapate without everyone piling out at once, I'd say this is particularly important for high profile midweek games. I'm not as concerned about saturday fixtures as the crowd movement is more evenly spread.

 

[Commander]

What happened later I dread to think as those even more tanked-up tried to catch a train in time to get to the game.

I got the 2.40pm train from Brighton to Falmer and there was nobody on it! Took my seat in time for kick off, was easier than getting to Withdean.

 

[Danny-Boy]

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm sure platform 3 was used on the Gills game, going straight to Falmer then on to Lewes.

That was when they were using Platform 3 to run services east and west of Brighton, it's the ONLY platform on Brighton station with exits both east and west, and because of the curvature it is only limited to 4 coaches, because the points are way down the platform, not at the platform end.

The TOcs gave up the east/west service in the slammer days, because if a train broke down in the actual platform (as happened) the whole service was paralysed. Plus a train leaving for Lewes from Platform 3 has to cross all the main running lines to London, where the real revenue is earned. If other services are held up then the TOC has to pay for that.

 

[Cantona's Flying Dropkick]

That was when they were using Platform 3 to run services east and west of Brighton, it's the ONLY platform on Brighton station with exits both east and west, and because of the curvature it is only limited to 4 coaches, because the points are way down the platform, not at the platform end.

The TOcs gave up the east/west service in the slammer days, because if a train broke down in the actual platform (as happened) the whole service was paralysed. Plus a train leaving for Lewes from Platform 3 has to cross all the main running lines to London, where the real revenue is earned. If other services are held up then the TOC has to pay for that.

It was a four carriage train. I think they are using plat 3 for the shuttle trains stopping Brighton/Falmer/Lewes/Falmer/Brighton. I will check tonight if they are continuing this service.

 

[Taybha]

The southbound A23 will look a bit like this at 5pm on the 27th

 

[Danny-Boy]

I'll be fascinated to discover how more than 2,000 Palace fans will get on to Brighton-bound trains at East Croydon during the evening peak period.

They would also get on at Puirley, Redhill and other places. We do have quite a wide hinterland of support Lord B...

 

[mwrpoole]

Think this would be a good way to go, as long as they could patrol the coach parks properly. Sod all the Sussex-based Palace scummers

I believe this is what the police call a 'bubble' match. West Ham vs Cardiff a couple of weeks ago was a 'bubble' match for away fans and Cardiff were only given 50% of the normal away allocation. Any Cardiff fans based outside of Cardiff had to meet the police at South Mimms services to get their ticket and were then escorted via coach to Upton Park.

 

[Danny-Boy]

The southbound A23 will look a bit like this at 5pm on the 27th

Don't tell me your Green Party Council is going to get tough on all your new tourists...

 

[Rookie]

Not used the train yet but think the car park/park n ride will be fun when the bigger away attendances come to play, at the moment away fans come straight out onto it to mingle with the home fans really can't see the police letting that happen with Palace et al. If they choose to keep them behind it could be quite a while before all the car park is clear

 

[8ace]

I believe this is what the police call a 'bubble' match. West Ham vs Cardiff a couple of weeks ago was a 'bubble' match for away fans and Cardiff were only given 50% of the normal away allocation. Any Cardiff fans based outside of Cardiff had to meet the police at South Mimms services to get their ticket and were then escorted via coach to Upton Park.

Are all bubble matches reciprocal arrangements?