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[Travel] Trains (again), Safety



jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
5,044
i'd say getting Falmer was a complete success. getting around the objectors that said transport could cope was well faught battle. the alternative was staying at Withdean and stagnation in L1+L2, or worse.
To describe the building and approval of the stadium as a complete and utter failure because the train service involves a queue for half an hour (or more tbf, but either way) on Midweek games is nothing short of hyperbole.
 
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Kitcatt

Member
Apr 7, 2017
95
There was someone with a clicker on both sides yesterday. Just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. MPs can ask for the service to be better all they want, but until they tender rolling stock additions nothing will change. Yesterday I found the service to and from absolutely fine. It was a busy train, but if you are expecting a train not to be full to the brim, and have a seat for everyone, then you are going to have to go earlier sorry.
Until they tender??
Is that the German and French investors you are asking to tender more rolling stock? Not going to happen in a million years… it’s not just getting to and from Falmer that’s screwed, it’s the whole national rail network. It’s run to make a profit for individuals not as a public service for the greater good so will always be a shit show until that changes
 


The Colonel

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2023
226
No one’s going to finance this (assuming they could even get the land and the licensing) for the sake of 20 events per year. As has been said, the great majority of people just want to get away, especially evening games.
Disagree. There would be pub/restaurant/leisure companies queuing up for the chance to open on sites around the Amex. 20 days of football custom is merely a bonus. There is a massive shortage of sites around Brighton for these types of venues. If a couple of big plots became available in Falmer every chain you can name would want to be there for 365 days of business.
 


jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
5,044
Until they tender??
Is that the German and French investors you are asking to tender more rolling stock? Not going to happen in a million years… it’s not just getting to and from Falmer that’s screwed, it’s the whole national rail network. It’s run to make a profit for individuals not as a public service for the greater good so will always be a shit show until that changes
The department of transport tender rolling stock. Yes it is run for profit, that’s why the government should control it, this MP is in government, the answer is investment from them. I know a solution that would fix this and to be honest most railways in the country, anyone else with a Transport and Logisitcs degree could tell, you but no one from the government, TOCs, ROSCOs, wants to invest, so this is just going to go round and round in circles. People are saying Southern need to put on my carriages, there are no more carriages.
 


mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
There was someone with a clicker on both sides yesterday. Just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. MPs can ask for the service to be better all they want, but until they tender rolling stock additions nothing will change. Yesterday I found the service to and from absolutely fine. It was a busy train, but if you are expecting a train not to be full to the brim, and have a seat for everyone, then you are going to have to go earlier sorry.
When I passed the barrier I assure you there was no clicking as one of the Police officers stood just inside on the platform said he would like the people counted onto the platform too, but it was a matter for the railways. Im sure that is the case BUT I also argue once it isnt the case or it becomes obvious to the police there is a dangerous overcrowding issue they should have stepped in.
 




abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,415
Is this true, where is the evidence? I think IF true it will anger many thousands of fans. I believe the club have a moral responsibility here. They may well feel the demand is greater than supply and take the couldn't care less approach but these things tend to bite you later. I certainly hope the club DO care and will join any collaborative efforts to improve the travel experience for fans.

The evidence is that the transport situation from trains to park and ride to parking gets worse and worse and the club are doing nothing to improve it.
 


mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
Disagree. There would be pub/restaurant/leisure companies queuing up for the chance to open on sites around the Amex. 20 days of football custom is merely a bonus. There is a massive shortage of sites around Brighton for these types of venues. If a couple of big plots became available in Falmer every chain you can name would want to be there for 365 days of business.
Of course infrequent use becomes problematic BUT for a supposed community stadium perhaps the community need MORE use? Yes its problematic and difficult to see it practically happening but I ask why not? There was past talk of a hotel at the stadium (not unusual for some modern stadiums) and with that you could have another pub/restaurant - we have a captive uni audience so im sure its not a complete no-go and I would not at least throw it out until fully explored.
 


mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
The evidence is that the transport situation from trains to park and ride to parking gets worse and worse and the club are doing nothing to improve it.
passive evidence, is it not possible the club are monitoring the situation but haven't declared their hand as yet? I would at least like to hold a glass half full that the club haven't washed their hands of their supporters travel experience.
 




mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
To describe the building and approval of the stadium as a complete and utter failure because the train service involves a queue for half an hour on Midweek games is nothing short of hyperbole.
I think you'll find half an hour for some is far from an exaggeration but an under-statement
 


mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
The department of transport tender rolling stock. Yes it is run for profit, that’s why the government should control it, this MP is in government, the answer is investment from them. I know a solution that would fix this and to be honest most railways in the country, anyone else with a Transport and Logisitcs degree could tell, you but no one from the government, TOCs, ROSCOs, wants to invest, so this is just going to go round and round in circles. People are saying Southern need to put on my carriages, there are no more carriages.
is it logistically possible to have more frequency of the shuttle Falmer to Lewes and Falmer to Brighton?
 


jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
5,044
When I passed the barrier I assure you there was no clicking as one of the Police officers stood just inside on the platform said he would like the people counted onto the platform too, but it was a matter for the railways. Im sure that is the case BUT I also argue once it isnt the case or it becomes obvious to the police there is a dangerous overcrowding issue they should have stepped in.
If there was a dangerous overcrowding issue after the match, then they would have stepped in, I’m not really sure what the issue is. You may have not seen the clicker, but there is one on both platforms. Trains are always going to be busy onboard to and from any stadium in the country.
 




mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
The department of transport tender rolling stock. Yes it is run for profit, that’s why the government should control it, this MP is in government, the answer is investment from them. I know a solution that would fix this and to be honest most railways in the country, anyone else with a Transport and Logisitcs degree could tell, you but no one from the government, TOCs, ROSCOs, wants to invest, so this is just going to go round and round in circles. People are saying Southern need to put on my carriages, there are no more carriages.
When Palace come to the Amex, is that statement about no more carriages inaccurate, i.e. the railway finds a driver and carriages for them? Or am I missing something here?
 




mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
If there was a dangerous overcrowding issue after the match, then they would have stepped in, I’m not really sure what the issue is. You may have not seen the clicker, but there is one on both platforms. Trains are always going to be busy onboard to and from any stadium in the country.
We will have to agree to differ here but the Police officer also wanting a clicker confirmed to me there definitely wasnt when I passed through.
 




abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,415
passive evidence, is it not possible the club are monitoring the situation but haven't declared their hand as yet? I would at least like to hold a glass half full that the club haven't washed their hands of their supporters travel experience.

I truly hope you’re right but we will have to agree to disagree.
 


jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
5,044
is it logistically possible to have more frequency of the shuttle Falmer to Lewes and Falmer to Brighton?
No. Six trains an hour at full capacity is more than enough to handle the crowds, you will have to wait about 15 - 20 mins occasionally because you can not have trains constantly moving along the line like a travelator. The problem with midweeks is carriage length, which cannot be strengthened because there is a lack of rolling stock, because they took the class 313s and class 455s off lease with no replacement, which was a government led decision.
 


mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
The evidence is that the transport situation from trains to park and ride to parking gets worse and worse and the club are doing nothing to improve it.
The club have made some small improvements on more park n ride sites like pyecombe which of course moves arguably some fans from trains to busses. The club have commissoned fans surveys on modes of transport to/from games so I dont see they are completely blind to what is going on.
 


jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
5,044
We will have to agree to differ here but the Police officer also wanting a clicker confirmed to me there definitely wasnt when I passed through.
There may not have been a clicker at that exact moment, but there is extensive CCTV that monitors whether the situation is out of control. The clicker is all reality is a fail safe and one of the last things that actually matters prevent the overcrowding.
 




mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
No. Six trains an hour at full capacity is more than enough to handle the crowds, you will have to wait about 15 - 20 mins occasionally because you can not have trains constantly moving along the line like a travelator. The problem with midweeks is carriage length, which cannot be strengthened because there is a lack of rolling stock, because they took the class 313s and class 455s off lease with no replacement, which was a government led decision.
You make many interesting contributions thanks. What I would love to know (I appreciate it wont change much!) is when Falmer was decided upon what was agreed in the transport situation, what legally binding aspects, who signed off on this and most importantly was there a risk analysis report looking at disruption to what presumably was considered safe and viable and are any of these matters now happening?
 


mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
973
There may not have been a clicker at that exact moment, but there is extensive CCTV that monitors whether the situation is out of control. The clicker is all reality is a fail safe and one of the last things that actually matters prevent the overcrowding.
Fair point and I presume someone on the bridge can be an extra CCTV with human eyes. From my experience it was definitely the worst I have ever known in terms of over-crowding on the platform though.
 


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