[Albion] Training the forward group separately

[Han Solo]

Ipswich's striker coach in the last couple of seasons has been Lee Grant, of goalkeeping fame. League goals scored in 22/23 - 101, League goals scored in 23/24 - 92.

193 goals in two seasons having been coached by a goalkeeper with insights into what goalkeepers find hardest to prevent.

The idea that goalkeepers and defenders have no clue about how to worry a defense and goalkeeper is of course another completely illogical perspective mainly shared by those who generally struggle with logical thinking.

 

[Mellotron]

Our handling of forwards has seemed a bit odd for years.

- The massive undervaluing of Glenn Murray
- Bruno being in charge of finishing (apparently?)
- Our flat out refusal to acknowledge that decent strikers cost a premium - not so much an issue now granted, but for years we had an excellent defence and midfield, and a comparatively far weaker strikeforce including the likes of Connolly, DJ Locadia, Maupay etc.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Sorry, your question is can you coach attackers to finish?

Are you suggesting that it could all be completely natural otherwise?

Nope, I'm suggesting some gave that as an excuse when we regularly underachieved versus xG.

 

[peterward]

Since we're talking about Potter and also about the legends night at the Theatre Royal, let's get NSC's opinion on this.

One of the famous things about the Potter era was that we never quite matched our xG with real goals. There were some good debates on here about whether you could specifically coach forward play and particularly finishing.

Zamora said on Monday that you can. In fact the reason Bristol Rovers had a succession of top scorers, not just BZ but also players like Cureton was that Holloway worked the forwards separately and all they did was movement and finishing. The effect, according to BZ, was that they went into games full of confidence when it came to finishing, which became second nature.

So - if you CAN coach finishing, should you? And, if so, to what level?

Obviously we're talking about 20 years ago and a lower division side. Is football so technical these days that the whole group has to work together on tactics at all times? Could the forwards be separated most of the time? Or, if not, what's the balance?

On the recent Gary Neville Overlap edition where he interviews Rooney, Rooney talks aabout exactly this, at the end of training when he was most tired, he would practice finishing with Eric Steele, nothing more than ball after ball. He said, like you cited, that in doing so, in the game goal scoring became far more instinctive.

 

[Han Solo]

Nope, I'm suggesting some gave that as an excuse when we regularly underachieved versus xG.

Your take back then was that it was Potters fault.

Whats your perspective on Evan Ferguson going goalless in 20 games, Joao Pedro scoring 2-3 goal from open play in 6 months and Welbeck only scoring five goals? Because shirley you dont think it has anything to do with Roberto De Zerbi being unable to teach the players to finish?

(for the record, I gave a decent developed answer earlier that people probably prefer to ignore, and I'm not going to blame Ferguson, Wenger, Potter and De Zerbi for Welbecks inability to convert chances)

 

[Guinness Boy]

Your take back then was that it was Potters fault.

The line I wrote that you quoted doesn't contradict that. Not scoring enough compared to chances is an absolute Potter trait. It was the same at Chelsea.

Whats your perspective on Evan Ferguson going goalless in 20 games, Joao Pedro scoring 2-3 goal from open play in 6 months and Welbeck only scoring five goals? Because shirley you dont think it has anything to do with Roberto De Zerbi being unable to teach the players to finish?

Do you mean Ferguson who turned out to be injured quite seriously and Joao Pedro who was the third highest scorer in the Europa League before he, too, got injured? The Ferguson, Welbeck and Pedro who should have been assisted by March, Enciso and Mitoma except all three were injured for most of the season? And all three of whom took their share of scoring when they were fit because they weren't, y'know, playing wingback (or being coached by a fullback)?

 

[Han Solo]

The line I wrote that you quoted doesn't contradict that. Not scoring enough compared to chances is an absolute Potter trait. It was the same at Chelsea.



Do you mean Ferguson who turned out to be injured quite seriously and Joao Pedro who was the third highest scorer in the Europa League before he, too, got injured? The Ferguson, Welbeck and Pedro who should have been assisted by March, Enciso and Mitoma except all three were injured for most of the season? And all three of whom took their share of scoring when they were fit because they weren't, y'know, playing wingback (or being coached by a fullback)?

The most predictable answer of all time.

 

[albionalex]

Danilo Orsi scored 25 goals for Crawley this year, having scored 4 goals the year before.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

Bruno as forwards coach worked as well as whoever the set piece coach is currently. Not very well

I hope neither of them are involved next season

Is there anyone who's been involved with the Albion you actually like?

 

[Flounce]

Is there anyone who's been involved with the Albion you actually like?

Weird question, everyone except Bruno and Sanchez, oh and the set piece coach who, to me, is a bit shit but I have no idea who he is.

Unless of course any criticism I make about anyone means you think I don’t like them, which is equally as weird.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

Weird question, everyone except Bruno and Sanchez, oh and the set piece coach who, to me, is a bit shit but I have no idea who he is.

Unless of course any criticism I make about anyone means you think I don’t like them, which is equally as weird.

It's weird times we live in....but why don't you like Bruno pray tell? Is it the fact he had a job offer with more money? Generally interested in opinions

 

[Flounce]

It's weird times we live in....but why don't you like Bruno pray tell? Is it the fact he had a job offer with more money? Generally interested in opinions

I accept my dislike it pretty illogical. It probably comes from disappointment, I loved watching him play for us, really classy player and played a big part in our promotion. I think the “once a Seagull, always a Seagull” speech at the Amex and the way he left, which I did understand, left me more disappointed than GP leaving. I thought he’d be here for the long term.

I did say it was illogical

 

[pigmanovich]

Do you mean Ferguson who turned out to be injured quite seriously and Joao Pedro who was the third highest scorer in the Europa League before he, too, got injured? The Ferguson, Welbeck and Pedro who should have been assisted by March, Enciso and Mitoma except all three were injured for most of the season? And all three of whom took their share of scoring when they were fit because they weren't, y'know, playing wingback (or being coached by a fullback)?

 

[Coldeanseagull]

I accept my dislike it pretty illogical. It probably comes from disappointment, I loved watching him play for us, really classy player and played a big part in our promotion. I think the “once a Seagull, always a Seagull” speech at the Amex and the way he left, which I did understand, left me more disappointed than GP leaving.

I did say it was illogical

I get that, I felt the same way for a few weeks.
I'm just too lazy to hold onto a grudge