[Misc] Trade advice

[Simster]

Sages of NSC, I wonder what you advise here:

So we needed to replace a section of our kitchen flooring owing to water damage. The whole thing was a kerfuffle because we needed an electrician to disconnect underfloor heating then book a tradesman in either side of the electrician's availability. Whilst this was all being arranged, we ordered the flooring so that it was ready to be laid. The flooring duly arrived and my wife signed off for it and put it in our hallway.

It took 3 weeks for the floor to be laid. When it was, our guy opened the packaging and found some of the flooring was damaged (and we have taken pictures of it before it was opened). Now it seems the flooring company are refusing to accept this because

a) we didn't sign the delivery as damaged when it was delivered. Our argument was that it was covered in cellophane and didn't look noticably bashed.
b) we held onto it for 4 weeks before reporting it. Again, we didn't open it until our flooring guy was on site to lay it.

I'd be interested to know legally where we stand. Ultimately, we took a delivery of a product that wasn't fit for purpose and have photos of the unopened damaged packages once we unwrapped the cellophane. But should my wife have reasonably been expected to unwrap all the cellophane before signing it off? Also, is there a "reasonable timeframe" to consider, and if so is 4 weeks outside of that?

 

[Goldstone1976]

Sages of NSC, I wonder what you advise here:

So we needed to replace a section of our kitchen flooring owing to water damage. The whole thing was a kerfuffle because we needed an electrician to disconnect underfloor heating then book a tradesman in either side of the electrician's availability. Whilst this was all being arranged, we ordered the flooring so that it was ready to be laid. The flooring duly arrived and my wife signed off for it and put it in our hallway.

It took 3 weeks for the floor to be laid. When it was, our guy opened the packaging and found some of the flooring was damaged (and we have taken pictures of it before it was opened). Now it seems the flooring company are refusing to accept this because

a) we didn't sign the delivery as damaged when it was delivered. Our argument was that it was covered in cellophane and didn't look noticably bashed.
b) we held onto it for 4 weeks before reporting it. Again, we didn't open it until our flooring guy was on site to lay it.

I'd be interested to know legally where we stand. Ultimately, we took a delivery of a product that wasn't fit for purpose and have photos of the unopened damaged packages once we unwrapped the cellophane. But should my wife have reasonably been expected to unwrap all the cellophane before signing it off? Also, is there a "reasonable timeframe" to consider, and if so is 4 weeks outside of that?

I’m not an expert on consumer law, but my opinion would be that the answer to your first question is that no, it’s not reasonable to expect your wife to open all the packages before signing for the delivery as they seemed undamaged. Your second question: 4 weeks is quite a long time to leave it before opening them, and I don’t know where you’d stand legally. However, you have photos of the unopened packages (why, if they seemed undamaged?), and there’s a good reason why you didn’t open them for 4 weeks. I’d hope that the supplier would do the decent thing.

 

[Gazwag]

I’m not an expert on consumer law, but my opinion would be that the answer to your first question is that no, it’s not reasonable to expect your wife to open all the packages before signing for the delivery as they seemed undamaged. Your second question: 4 weeks is quite a long time to leave it before opening them, and I don’t know where you’d stand legally. However, you have photos of the unopened packages (why, if they seemed undamaged?), and there’s a good reason why you didn’t open them for 4 weeks. I’d hope that the supplier would do the decent thing.

I agree with the first past but for "building" materials I don't think 4 weeks is unreasonable, IMO it would be unreasonable to open packaging as it puts the items at risk of damage

Edit: although, see below

 

[Gazwag]

From which

What is a faulty product?

Under the Consumer Rights Act, all products - including electrical goods - must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.

The rules also include digital content in this definition. So all products - whether physical, electrical or digital - must meet the following standards:
Satisfactory quality Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask yourself what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won't be held to as high standards as luxury goods.
Fit for purpose The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods.
As described The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.

How long do I have to return faulty goods?
You have the right to reject your item and get a refund within 30 days of possessing the goods.
You could also ask the retailer to repair or replace your item within six months of purchase.
Your rights against the retailer can last for up to six years, but after the first six months the onus is on you to prove a fault was present at the time you took ownership of the goods.
You can also use your guarantee or warranty if your product develops a fault.

Tips for getting a complaint dealt with
Act quickly. You have 30 days from taking physical ownership of the goods to claim a refund for a faulty product; after this time you may be offered a repair or replacement.
In the first instance, write to the customer-services department politely and objectively, so you have a written record as evidence. Then escalate if you're not happy with the response.
Quote the relevant laws.
Say what you want to happen - refund, explanation or apology.
Say what you will do if not satisfied with the response, such as going to the relevant ombudsman or small claims court.

You are maybe not entitled to a refund, but you don't want one anyway

 

[Icy Gull]

Sages of NSC, I wonder what you advise here:

So we needed to replace a section of our kitchen flooring owing to water damage. The whole thing was a kerfuffle because we needed an electrician to disconnect underfloor heating then book a tradesman in either side of the electrician's availability. Whilst this was all being arranged, we ordered the flooring so that it was ready to be laid. The flooring duly arrived and my wife signed off for it and put it in our hallway.

It took 3 weeks for the floor to be laid. When it was, our guy opened the packaging and found some of the flooring was damaged (and we have taken pictures of it before it was opened). Now it seems the flooring company are refusing to accept this because

a) we didn't sign the delivery as damaged when it was delivered. Our argument was that it was covered in cellophane and didn't look noticably bashed.
b) we held onto it for 4 weeks before reporting it. Again, we didn't open it until our flooring guy was on site to lay it.

I'd be interested to know legally where we stand. Ultimately, we took a delivery of a product that wasn't fit for purpose and have photos of the unopened damaged packages once we unwrapped the cellophane. But should my wife have reasonably been expected to unwrap all the cellophane before signing it off? Also, is there a "reasonable timeframe" to consider, and if so is 4 weeks outside of that?

You went with some bargain basement internet company when you bought the wood didn’t you?

 

[Simster]

I’m not an expert on consumer law, but my opinion would be that the answer to your first question is that no, it’s not reasonable to expect your wife to open all the packages before signing for the delivery as they seemed undamaged. Your second question: 4 weeks is quite a long time to leave it before opening them, and I don’t know where you’d stand legally. However, you have photos of the unopened packages (why, if they seemed undamaged?), and there’s a good reason why you didn’t open them for 4 weeks. I’d hope that the supplier would do the decent thing.

So the packages were wrapped in that heavy duty cellophane on delivery and stayed that way for 4 weeks. When we unwrapped the cellophane we could see the packages inside were damaged, so took pictures of them before we opened them.

You went with some bargain basement internet company when you bought the wood didn’t you?

Actually I went to a dealer in Finchley!

 

[Goldstone1976]

So the packages were wrapped in that heavy duty cellophane on delivery and stayed that way for 4 weeks. When we unwrapped the cellophane we could see the packages inside were damaged, so took pictures of them before we opened them.

Actually I went to a dealer in Finchley!

Got it. Entirely reasonable imo. Legally? Unclear. Morally? The supplier should replace.

 

[Gazwag]

Actually I went to a dealer in Finchley!

Did you buy them on your credit card as that might be another option

6
Claim from your credit card company
If you get no response from the retailer, or if it has gone bust, and you paid for the item with a credit card, you can take the claim to your credit card company.

You have the same rights from your finance provider as you have against the retailer.


7
Make a chargeback claim
If you paid by debit card and your goods were under the value of £100, you should speak to your card provider about making a chargeback claim.

The main requirement for getting your money back through chargeback is evidence that there's been a breach of contract, which includes when goods are faulty.

In the case of tangible goods that you've purchased from a high street shop or an online retailer,you have 120 days starts from when you become aware of the problem, up until 540 days after the initial transaction.


8
Don't be fobbed off
If the retailer or manufacturer still won't help, write to the retailer (not the manufacturer) saying that, under the Consumer Rights Act or Sale of Goods Act, the item is not of satisfactory quality and you are exercising your right to have it repaired or replaced.

If it still fails to offer a remedy and you want to resolve the dispute through court action, start following the steps in the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct.

You should consider court action only as a last resort, so it's best to make every effort to resolve the issue before deciding to take your claim to the small claims court.

 

[mwrpoole]

So the packages were wrapped in that heavy duty cellophane on delivery and stayed that way for 4 weeks. When we unwrapped the cellophane we could see the packages inside were damaged, so took pictures of them before we opened them.



Actually I went to a dealer in Finchley!

Did you pay by credit card by any chance? I had a similar incident with a new TV I bought for my son's birthday last year. His birthday was about a week after it was delivered and that's when it was opened and it was found damaged. The company tried the 'you have to tell us within 24 hours of any damage' but the credit card company sorted it out and I think it was the 30 day rule they used.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

[MENTION=26444]Wrong Direction[/MENTION] and I have often come across damaged goods in undamaged packaging.
Meaning they were damaged before they went in the box.
Loads of bathroom stuff comes from abroad now and I would say we get a damaged item every other job.
One thing we always do is take the stuff out of the packaging the day it arrives and before we start any work.

 

[Brian Parsons]

Caveat emptor. Buyer beware. Been there, got the tee- shirt etc. Unfair it may seem but unfortunately you wont be the last.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

you sign for delivery, not for inspection. you might ask the company if they expect each delivery to be opened and fully inspected before being signed for, and where this is stated in their T&C. i'd wager it is not.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Meanwhile, back at Simster's house...

 

[Bry Nylon]

Caveat emptor.

...

 

[drew]

Caveat emptor. Buyer beware. Been there, got the tee- shirt etc. Unfair it may seem but unfortunately you wont be the last.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

I think you'll find there is more to it than that. He has every chance of getting a refund but needs to press them.

 

[McTavish]

You will almost certainly be able to get a replacement or a refund particularly as you have taken pictures (although I should emphasise that I have no particular expertise).

If the goods that you have bought are faulty, it is up to the retailer to show that they are not responsible for the fault up to six months. This usually applies to things that might go wrong that were previously working eg a watch that stops after a few weeks, but I see no reason why it shouldn't apply here - the retailer would have to show how you caused the damage.

First option, as others have said, is via your credit card if you used one.

If not I would ask the retailer again nicely for a replacement or refund and if they refuse, tell them that you intend to make a claim against them in the small claims court. If they still refuse, make a claim https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money It's fairly straightforward and not too expensive: £25 for £300, £105 for £3000 and you should get the cost back if you win. Most people don't bother to contest it or pay up before the case, If they don't, you may get to appear on TV in "The Sherriffs are Coming" or "Call the Bailiffs".

Good luck!