[Politics] Tracey Crouch

[Dick Swiveller]

I didn't use the term 'snowflakes' and 'trendy liberals' when I addressed your previous post.

What has that got to do with anything? Are you claiming you didn't use them as pejorative terms to express contempt towards those with differing opinions to yours, thus making your comment to me massively hypocritical?

 

[Beach Seagull]

For some, yes. But not for others.

I am lucky enough not to suffer from addictive tendencies. The main temptation in my life is the box of Heroes chocolates in the Kitchen which was bought for Halloween but then no one turned up.


If people do tend towards addiction, they deserve support.

They do deserve support but don't blame William Hill.

 

[Mtoto]

As refreshing as it is to see a politician stand up for her principles, there is rank naivety in the argument that banning FOBTs will somehow save lives.

Anyone who thinks problem gamblers will change their ways due to a change in stakes are delusional, it’s like making a stand on obesity by saying we should ban crunchies.

There are as many problem gamblers pissing their money away on lotto scratch cards, online bingo and in casinos.

I reckon as many, if not more people commit suicide because of debt caused by irresponsible lending by credit buisinesses as by problem gamblers.

Tackling these would be far more problematic though.

It will change their habits, no doubt about it. It's not the medium, it's the game. The biggest game on FOBTs by far is roulette, and a £2 max makes it all but unplayable if you have a compulsive pattern of play.

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[BadFish]

How about just resisting the temptation? Simple.

Why has no one thought of this before?

Its so simple now you say it.

I am going to see a film called Beautiful Boy about drug addiction I will keep this in mind while I watch.

Maybe it will be a really short film

"Just stop taking the drugs son"

"thanks dad what a great idea, want to play FIFA"

Fin

 

[Beach Seagull]

Why has no one thought of this before?

Its so simple now you say it.

I am going to see a film called Beautiful Boy about drug addiction I will keep this in mind while I watch.

Maybe it will be a really short film

"Just stop taking the drugs son"

"thanks dad what a great idea, want to play FIFA"

Fin

It is simple. Don't play the machines and if you do and lose loads blame yourself not the bookies.

 

[BadFish]

It is simple. Don't play the machines and if you do and lose loads blame yourself not the bookies.

Actually if it's all the same to you i am going to not play the machines and blame the bookies for having those kinds of machines in their shops and putting profit over the welfare of their patrons. We have similar machines over here in Australia and they are a cancer on society ruining families and diverting money from much needed areas.

Said machines are highly sophisticated machines designed to keep people playing and losing their money. Only blaming those who put their $$ in misses the point that much work and investment has gone into making these machines successful at taking people's money.

 

[Beach Seagull]

Actually if it's all the same to you i am going to not play the machines and blame the bookies for having those kinds of machines in their shops and putting profit over the welfare of their patrons. We have similar machines over here in Australia and they are a cancer on society ruining families and diverting money from much needed areas.

Said machines are highly sophisticated machines designed to keep people playing and losing their money. Only blaming those who put their $$ in misses the point that much work and investment has gone into making these machines successful at taking people's money.

Don't play them then it's really simple. Nobody makes you play them. How people who lose fortunes on them can then blame the bookies is totally beyond me, it's pathetic, take some responsibility for your actions.

 

[cunning fergus]

It will change their habits, no doubt about it. It's not the medium, it's the game. The biggest game on FOBTs by far is roulette, and a £2 max makes it all but unplayable if you have a compulsive pattern of play.

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I don’t disagree in that very very narrrow context, but then that is still window dressing.

I don’t know the figures but I can’t help but think there is more ridiculousness online than there is in betting shops. I say that because most gambling online now allows credit cards, pay pal etc.

The FOBTs have never allowed people to put in credit cards, yet online you can gamble on credit away in your own hovel.

I know someone who maxed out their credit cards (taking out more) to feed his addiction to online poker. He was by his own admission a f@cking idiot. When he was learning his lesson I would tell him how a mate of mine had 2 of his 3 kids (under 18) that played chess for the U.K. and they and their friends (all very bright kids on their way to Oxford etc.) used to roam online poker sites to shake down f@cking idiots like him. Anyone playing online poker for money better be bright if not they will lose.

People that systematically lose money gambling (or spending money they can’t afford to pay back) are nothing short of f@cking idiots, it’s all very well living in a country where the state now has sliced off another freedom to try and prevent people being f@cking idiots, but limiting FOBTs does not even go close to touching the sides.

The sub prime mortgage episode tells us that, currently being repeated in the car finance sector, but let’s not fret about that now, let’s worry about f@cking idiots pissing their benefits or minimum wage away in Ladbrokes.

 

[BadFish]

Don't play them then it's really simple. Nobody makes you play them. How people who lose fortunes on them can then blame the bookies is totally beyond me, it's pathetic, take some responsibility for your actions.

My advice would be to read up on it, plenty of articles, studies and documentaries about this. You might find it enlightening.

Personally I think that the best way to make an effective free choice is to understand the things that influence us.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Have you considered a career as a Mental Health Counsellor ?

Probably just tell his clients to pull themselves together

 

[Beach Seagull]

Probably just tell his clients to pull themselves together

I would in a diplomatic way. At least I'd be busy as 'mental health' is certainly the industry to be in at the moment. And yeah if a client was to tell me wasted loads on gambling machines an element of my counselling would involve 'and whose fault is that'?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I don’t disagree in that very very narrrow context, but then that is still window dressing.

I don’t know the figures but I can’t help but think there is more ridiculousness online than there is in betting shops. I say that because most gambling online now allows credit cards, pay pal etc.

The FOBTs have never allowed people to put in credit cards, yet online you can gamble on credit away in your own hovel.

I know someone who maxed out their credit cards (taking out more) to feed his addiction to online poker. He was by his own admission a f@cking idiot. When he was learning his lesson I would tell him how a mate of mine had 2 of his 3 kids (under 18) that played chess for the U.K. and they and their friends (all very bright kids on their way to Oxford etc.) used to roam online poker sites to shake down f@cking idiots like him. Anyone playing online poker for money better be bright if not they will lose.

People that systematically lose money gambling (or spending money they can’t afford to pay back) are nothing short of f@cking idiots, it’s all very well living in a country where the state now has sliced off another freedom to try and prevent people being f@cking idiots, but limiting FOBTs does not even go close to touching the sides.

The sub prime mortgage episode tells us that, currently being repeated in the car finance sector, but let’s not fret about that now, let’s worry about f@cking idiots pissing their benefits or minimum wage away in Ladbrokes.

Poker used to be an absolute goldmine in the early 2000s especially when the Americans were in full flow. Hank Seventwo and Trumpfan1 might as well have flushed their money down the toilet given how badly they used to play. The Poker boom is well and truly over now though. Less people play online due to American crack downs and dwindling interest. Consequently, the only people left are maths graduates, sharks and the odd mug who gets fleeced.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

I don’t disagree in that very very narrrow context, but then that is still window dressing.

I don’t know the figures but I can’t help but think there is more ridiculousness online than there is in betting shops. I say that because most gambling online now allows credit cards, pay pal etc.

The FOBTs have never allowed people to put in credit cards, yet online you can gamble on credit away in your own hovel.

I know someone who maxed out their credit cards (taking out more) to feed his addiction to online poker. He was by his own admission a f@cking idiot. When he was learning his lesson I would tell him how a mate of mine had 2 of his 3 kids (under 18) that played chess for the U.K. and they and their friends (all very bright kids on their way to Oxford etc.) used to roam online poker sites to shake down f@cking idiots like him. Anyone playing online poker for money better be bright if not they will lose.

People that systematically lose money gambling (or spending money they can’t afford to pay back) are nothing short of f@cking idiots, it’s all very well living in a country where the state now has sliced off another freedom to try and prevent people being f@cking idiots, but limiting FOBTs does not even go close to touching the sides.

The sub prime mortgage episode tells us that, currently being repeated in the car finance sector, but let’s not fret about that now, let’s worry about f@cking idiots pissing their benefits or minimum wage away in Ladbrokes.

The industry has finally go its act together and you can exclude yourself from all online casinos.

https://www.gamcare.org.uk/get-advice/what-can-you-do/self-exclusion

I'm sure there are rogue ones that haven't signed up but it is a start. Whereas if a bookie bans someone, there are dozens of others within a short distance to go to. Often the same company with a different shop just so they can have more of these machines. And you would hope that bricks and mortar casino would be a little bit stricter in trying to stop problem gamblers. Obviously not in their interest but you would hope there is some effort. The problem I see with these machines is they are basically casinos on the high street without the casino regulations. And are fixed odds unlike actual physical casino games.

 

[vegster]

Gambling is always a mugs game, no one ever " beats the system " for ever but its become ever easier to lose much quicker. A pal at work thinks he is ahead of the game and usually tells me of how he has cleaned up on a football result, strangely, he doesn't tell me this every day although he will bet on fixtures 4-5 days a week.

 

[Binney on acid]

I remember in the early 70's there was an Andy Capp cartoon in 'The Mirror". Andy and Flo met a bookie in the street and briefly discussed holidays. The bookie was going somewhere long haul and exotic. Andy couldn't afford to go abroad. The words 'Nail' and 'head'..............

 

[vegster]

I remember in the early 70's there was an Andy Capp cartoon in 'The Mirror". Andy and Flo met a bookie in the street and briefly discussed holidays. The bookie was going somewhere long haul and exotic. Andy couldn't afford to go abroad. The words 'Nail' and 'head'..............

I always remember on the few times I ever visited, there used to be 2-3 or more windows marked " bet here " but only one window marked " Pay Winnings " Nail/ head #2

 

[cunning fergus]

Poker used to be an absolute goldmine in the early 2000s especially when the Americans were in full flow. Hank Seventwo and Trumpfan1 might as well have flushed their money down the toilet given how badly they used to play. The Poker boom is well and truly over now though. Less people play online due to American crack downs and dwindling interest. Consequently, the only people left are maths graduates, sharks and the odd mug who gets fleeced.

Taking the stats from the Guardian, the online gambling business is generating £4.5bn p.a. in losses from punters compared to £1.8bn in FOBTs. In 2009 it was £817m online and £1bn from FOBTs.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/31/uk-gambling-industry-takes-14bn-year-punters

This indicates that the online profit is much greater than FOBTs, but then the FOBTs will be easier to go for, they are certainly more visible.

Gambling at home is evidently then making more money for the online companies than FOBTs are for the bookies and it has the potential to be a far greater threat.

Taking this back to the stance by Crouch, it’s laudible but only to a point. There are a bigger gambling threats out there......

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I think the half time ads are a disgrace. You may well have an individual who has resisted all urge to bet, sat down, watched the game and then is BOMBARDED during it about "next goalscorer" etc. Sure, you can argue they are weak if they fall for it, but that's who it's targeting. It's all very well putting the Gambling Awareness blurb at the end but we all know it doesn't make a difference to someone struggling..

Apologies for the bounce but there appears to now be a crackdown on the awful mid-game ad culture

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/46453954

"Britain's biggest gambling companies have voluntarily agreed to a "whistle-to-whistle" television advertising ban.

The Remote Gambling Association (RGA), which includes Bet365, Ladbrokes and Paddy Power, has struck a deal to stop adverts during live sports broadcasts.

It follows political pressure about the amount of betting advertising on TV."

Let's see how well that goes.