[Football] Touching-up v Snowflakes

[aolstudios]

Throughout your posts you continually seem to be trying to minimise what happened by stating 'hands on hips and hands on backs.' In the article it states 'hostesses reported men repeatedly putting their hands up skirts' then re the hand holding that it was 'a prelude to pulling the women on their laps' amongst other similar examples that go beyond what you describe as harmless behaviour.

You are defending defending sexual assault and harassment.

Yep.
Repeatedly

 

[Grombleton]

Perhaps you have misjudged the mood, sexaul harrasment and assault should not be tolerated. However all the time it is tolerated by our politicians who roundly condemn these allegations, but do nothing with their own internal processes to deal with allegations of rape and clear sexual assault, it is not going to grab the public imagination, rightly or wrongly. I don't know what went on at the Presidents Club, but I thought the article so one sided as lose its impact as it came across as a one person point of view with no one yet supporting her claims, excepting a tranche of liberal elitelecturing us again on how to live our lives and how we should think. The subject matter was there but the journalism really ruined the arguement.

But,as has been pointed out in this thread already, surely the fact that the club has been disbanded, people hauled before their superiors, gagging orders and all is enough to prove that untoward things were happening?
If the claims were unsubstantiated then its far more likely a statement would be issued denying it and maybe a threat of a lawsuit against the journalist...but it hasn't happened.

 

[portslade seagull]

Blimey there would have wholesale claims against most on here when the slowies were played at the end of an evening

 

[Is it PotG?]

Blimey there would have wholesale claims against most on here when the slowies were played at the end of an evening

Indeed, the erection section often witnessed hands and tongues flying all over the show.

 

[SeagullRic]

At last a sensible post. Here's my view FWIW

- Big business owners and those with money generally have massive egos, huge libidos, get thier own way and like to be seen to be generous even if they aren't. A Black tie do in the Dorchester with scantily clad women for Charity ticks all the boxes and guarentees attendence.
- If you are asked to hostess in that situation you were probably expecting being propositioned at a minimum. This doesn't excuse the knob out hands up skirt crew but a strong character and familiarisation of the word no is required. Most, if not all, knew this, even the FT report aluded to this. This isn't "right' of course 'annoying' means leachy old perv in this context or sugar daddy for those that way inclined. If you want to earn £150 plus substantial tips knowing this, Go in with your eyes open
-Most importantly and completely unmentioned in this thread is the charities handing money back. GOSH is 500k lighter. There is one charity that might have to lay people off as a result. Can't we find a more socially acceptable way for rich people to part with thier money or at least not railroad them to giving it back? Still, Better to win the Internet isn't it, rathet than address such thorny points? (And I haven't got the answer either)

A 'more socially acceptable way for rich people to part with their money'? How about actually paying your taxes rather than doing anything and everything possible (legally and, often, illegally) to avoid doing so?

 

[BadFish]

A 'more socially acceptable way for rich people to part with their money'? How about actually paying your taxes rather than doing anything and everything possible (legally and, often, illegally) to avoid doing so?

Maybe the tax office should hire some hostesses.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Napper]

lets face it , bars and clubs are full of this sort.

Women flashing boobs , touching up blokes

Men cocks out , touching up birds.

It goes on and most of what is being reported isn't actually that much outside ordinary stuff.

Of course hands up skirts etc is a step too far and I'm sure was dealt with.

Nothing will change and it will die down anyway

 

[SeagullRic]

lets face it , bars and clubs are full of this sort.

Women flashing boobs , touching up blokes
In
Men cocks out , touching up birds.

It goes on and most of what is being reported isn't actually that much outside ordinary stuff.

Of course hands up skirts etc is a step too far and I'm sure was dealt with.

Nothing will change and it will die down anyway

Agree that this is depressingly commonplace, but what makes you 'sure it was dealt with'? Without the report from the FT none of this would have come out, the event would have continued next year as it has for decades.

Secondly, the fact this has been exposed and The Presidents Club disbanded is evidence is surely a sign this will become less accepted and a change of culture/behaviour possible?

 

[BadFish]

lets face it , bars and clubs are full of this sort.

Women flashing boobs , touching up blokes

Men cocks out , touching up birds.

It goes on and most of what is being reported isn't actually that much outside ordinary stuff.

Of course hands up skirts etc is a step too far and I'm sure was dealt with.

Nothing will change and it will die down anyway

Not sure it was the blokes that were getting touched up.

I think that the difference between what goes on bars and what happened at this club is a point of power and influence. The gentlemen in question were surely abusing their position of power over the hired help who seemingly were being paid to accept said attention and not say anything about it. What two consenting adults get up to on a night at at the pub or night club is IMHO a rather different matter and one that rather blurs the lines in this case.

It may turn out that the touching up and sexual harassment was consensual and indeed reciprocal but at the stage the evidence suggests this isn't the case.

I am not sure the really abhorrent behaviour like the hand up skirts was dealt with. Time will tell i suppose.

 

[Napper]

Agree that this is depressingly commonplace, but what makes you 'sure it was dealt with'? Without the report from the FT none of this would have come out, the event would have continued next year as it has for decades.

Secondly, the fact this has been exposed and The Presidents Club disbanded is evidence is surely a sign this will become less accepted and a change of culture/behaviour possible?

blokes will always try it , women will always try it. Boundaries always pushed. I think in a crowd the blokes , the girl , the other girls would pull them up on it. Same as happens in all walks.

The event will continue , maybe under a different format but it will go on . Same as numerous events daily , weekly , yearly.

Same as clubs , bars , work places all over the country.

Nothing will change

 

[Napper]

Not sure it was the blokes that were getting touched up.

I think that the difference between what goes on bars and what happened at this club is a point of power and influence. The gentlemen in question were surely abusing their position of power over the hired help who seemingly were being paid to accept said attention and not say anything about it. What two consenting adults get up to on a night at at the pub or night club is IMHO a rather different matter and one that rather blurs the lines in this case.

I am not sure the really abhorrent behaviour like the hand up skirts was dealt with. Time will tell i suppose.

thing is and its a fact of life , money gets you girls.

You may not like it , I may not like it.

Lots of women go after this sort of thing and aspire to have rich guys ( other way round too ).

Culture will never change so this will live on

rightly or wrongly

 

[dazzer6666]

Maybe the tax office should hire some hostesses.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Good idea....maybe something like the airlines had in the late 50s/60s perhaps ? (SAS in this case)

 

[BadFish]

thing is and its a fact of life , money gets you girls.

You may not like it , I may not like it.

Lots of women go after this sort of thing and aspire to have rich guys ( other way round too ).

Culture will never change so this will live on

rightly or wrongly

I can't argue with this although I am not really sure of the relevance of this in this particular case. The picture in my head of a barrister for some company MD in court in a few weeks or months saying "yeah but your honour we know its a fact that money gets you girls" is rather making me laugh

 

[Napper]

I am not really sure of the relevance of this in this particular case. The picture in my head of a barrister for some company MD in court saying "yeah but your honour we know its a fact that money gets you girls" is rather making me laugh

lol yeah

just saying , if all women stopped accepting being mis treated in the way of money then blokes with money wouldn't ever think all things can be purchased.

The report already says the majority of girls were flirting , up for bids , spending evenings with the guys so the blokes carry on and get more frenzied.

It wont be changed. Money will always raise the bar of what is accepted by "some " women so it will just go on.

It's not right but its just life.

 

[BadFish]

lol yeah

just saying , if all women stopped accepting being mis treated in the way of money then blokes with money wouldn't ever think all things can be purchased.

The report already says the majority of girls were flirting , up for bids , spending evenings with the guys so the blokes carry on and get more frenzied.

It wont be changed. Money will always raise the bar of what is accepted by "some " women so it will just go on.

It's not right but its just life.

I must have missed this bit.

So we are blaming other women/women for the poor behaviour of the men in question and not expecting them to take any responsibility for their actions?

 

[Napper]

I must have missed this bit.

So we are blaming other women/women for the poor behaviour of the men in question and not expecting them to take any responsibility for their actions?

watch the interview from the outraged hostess. She describes what plenty of the other hostesses were doing.

Not up for an argument so opting out.

Thanks

 

[SeagullRic]

blokes will always try it , women will always try it. Boundaries always pushed. I think in a crowd the blokes , the girl , the other girls would pull them up on it. Same as happens in all walks.

The event will continue , maybe under a different format but it will go on . Same as numerous events daily , weekly , yearly.

Same as clubs , bars , work places all over the country.

Nothing will change

I'd take a slightly more optimistic look, change doesn't happen overnight, particularly in the case of deeply entrenched and long held cultural views and attitudes but I'd see debates such as these, with points on both sides, as evidence it can and hopefully will happen overtime.

You said in your first post about what hands up skirts etc you were 'sure it was dealt with', I'll ask again- what makes you at all sure, given there is nothing to suggest this event was different to preceding years and the disbandment and subsequent story came about only due to an undercover piece?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This is the interview, watch it to the end.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42799595/undercover-reporter-hostesses-groped-at-men-only-event

lol yeah

just saying , if all women stopped accepting being mis treated in the way of money then blokes with money wouldn't ever think all things can be purchased.

The report already says the majority of girls were flirting , up for bids , spending evenings with the guys so the blokes carry on and get more frenzied.

It wont be changed. Money will always raise the bar of what is accepted by "some " women so it will just go on.

It's not right but its just life.

Which report? The one where the sex workers were brought in later in the evening?

Is it accepatable to tell a waitress to take her knickers off and dance on the table? Listen to the interview.

It's just life? It might be in some people's lives, but not the vast majority who aren't perverts and leches.

 

[marlowe]

Welcome to feminism. It’s a cruel beast of a woman.

I get it now. Your feeble attempts at trying to undermine my arguments against the unacceptable treatment of women by distorting and misrepresenting my words as sexist derive from your own underlying resentment of women. You shouldn't allow your feelings of emasculation cloud your judgement on this topic. Objecting to women being sexually assaulted by a group of men isn't about feminism or female empowerment it's about basic human decency.

 

[Napper]

I'd take a slightly more optimistic look, change doesn't happen overnight, particularly in the case of deeply entrenched and long held cultural views and attitudes but I'd see debates such as these, with points on both sides, as evidence it can and hopefully will happen overtime.

You said in your first post about what hands up skirts etc you were 'sure it was dealt with', I'll ask again- what makes you at all sure, given there is nothing to suggest this event was different to preceding years and the disbandment and subsequent story came about only due to an undercover piece?

because the bloke wouldn't of stopped there given half a chance.