[Politics] Tory voters- where do you go from here?

[Uh_huh_him]

I’m talking strong in being a united front and of quality in terms of vetted candidates, shifting out unpopular and shit politicians.

Fair enough
In which case I agree.

The Tories need a root and branch clear out, IMO.
It may well take two terms or more to get themselves back to being a credible party.

I liked the point made above by @A1X that eventually they are going to have to take on the right wing of their party and confront the policies and decisions of the last 10 years.

Hunt's acceptance speech said "I hope in particular they use their majority to make much needed reforms to the NHS, in a way that is sometimes difficult for Conservative governments to do".

Grown up politics from a politician I have previously considered to be a bit of a twat.
Shame he isn't standing.

 

[jcdenton08]

Fair enough
In which case I agree.

The Tories need a root and branch clear out, IMO.
It may well take two terms or more to get themselves back to being a credible party.

I liked the point made above by @A1X that eventually they are going to have to take on the right wing of their party and confront the policies and decisions of the last 10 years.

Hunt's acceptance speech said "I hope in particular they use their majority to make much needed reforms to the NHS, in a way that is sometimes difficult for Conservative governments to do".

Grown up politics from a politician I have previously considered to be a bit of a twat.
Shame he isn't standing.

Gave a like generally but disagree with the bit about Hunt. If he felt that strongly he’d have voted against the whip on Tory policies which have harmed the NHS. Career before country.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Gave a like generally but disagree with the bit about Hunt. If he felt that strongly he’d have voted against the whip on Tory policies which have harmed the NHS. Career before country.

well yeah there is that.

But at least he had the decency (or guilt) to admit it.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I’m talking strong in being a united front and of quality in terms of vetted candidates, shifting out unpopular and shit politicians.

This is my thing, I've never understood people who complain that "they're all the same". Logically that implies that at least one of the major parties should represent a position that I think is nonsensical.

I want a good government who are at least basically competent, and I want an opposition who could take over if they win the next election.

I don't want a government or an opposition who represent whatever nonsensical extreme they happen to think will get the biggest cheer at their party conference, whichever party they happen to be a member of.

 

[jcdenton08]

This is my thing, I've never understood people who complain that "they're all the same". Logically that implies that at least one of the major parties should represent a position that I think is nonsensical, which doesn't feel in anybody interest.

I want a good government who are at least basically competent, and I want an opposition who could take over if they win the next election.

I don't want a government or an opposition who represent whatever nonsensical extreme they happen to think will get the biggest cheer at their party conference, whichever party they happen to be a member of.

You put my fundamental belief much better than I did, but I blame my four pre-match beers.

We need strong government AND. competition challenging the government to keep them in line, and offer an alternative.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Is working as a hedge fund manager something to be sneered at?

Absolutely not. I believe our own @LamieRobertson is a Hedge Manager. (He also does contract grass cutting and strimming).

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The country is more left wing than ever before , the greens are more or less a communist party, the Labour Party is more left wing than ever before , the conservatives are more like the old liberals, which is why the conservatives lost , they have no leaders , and have moved too far from their core values , and were no longer fit for purpose,
Anyone who think Labour will change anything for the good , will be in for a shock , they have failed every time they have been in power

Labour Party left wing under SKS?

Didn't the hard left of the party want him out because he wasn't nuts enough to do what they wanted?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

You put my fundamental belief much better than I did, but I blame my four pre-match beers.

We need strong government AND. competition challenging the government to keep them in line, and offer an alternative.

I'm about 4pints in as well. It's mainly Harvey's though which I can basically down without any noticeable effect until I very suddenly can't.

 

[jcdenton08]

I'm about 4pints in as well. It's mainly Harvey's though which I can basically down without any noticeable effect until I very suddenly can't.

Midway through the fifth - but Strongbow. It isn’t touching the sides

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

No truth in the suggestion that Starmer’s father OWNED the factory and he has been economical with the truth about his father then?

Not saying I know it to be a fact just asking.

I am happy to see if Starmer can follow up on his promises and turn the country around btw, I just can’t warm to anything about him as things stand. IF his father did actually own the factory it is not a good look to make out that he was just a toolmaker though.

You’ll notice I have not been as rude to you as you were to me in the above post I hope. Is working as a hedge fund manager something to be sneered at?

The only people that think Starmers father owned the factory are the right wing press desperately trying to smear him. The fact that you are using this to try and somehow demean him says much.

if you think I was being rude then you are nearly as thin skinned as Farage. I should point out that I’m not comparing you to Farage politically as that really would be rude!

Hedge funds have been the bane of the financial markets since their inception. They thrive on chaos and bad news which is detrimental to many for the benefit of the few. So do I sneer at hedge manager? Absolutely. f***’em.

 

[Flounce]

The only people that think Starmers father owned the factory are the right wing press desperately trying to smear him. The fact that you are using this to try and somehow demean him says much.

if you think I was being rude then you are nearly as thin skinned as Farage. I should point out that I’m not comparing you to Farage politically as that really would be rude!

Hedge funds have been the bane of the financial markets since their inception. They thrive on chaos and bad news which is detrimental to many for the benefit of the few. So do I sneer at hedge manager? Absolutely. f***’em.

Be as rude as you like I don’t give a shit but it’s not necessary when discussing things imo was my only point. Seems to be the norm these days so carry on

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Be as rude as you like I don’t give a shit but it’s not necessary when discussing things imo was my only point. Seems to be the norm these days so carry on

Thanks. I’ll be rude and you can be condesending.

 

[Sorrel]

You think the 2019 strategy was carefully worked out in the expectation it would appeal to more voters?

Actually . . . . you're correct. That is what Corbyn thought

But this is the classic political tautology: Everyone who wants to lead puts themself forward because they think their ideas are correct and will be popular. Nobody would select a stance that did not map to their true position just because they thought it would win votes, would they? Oh hang on.....that's exactly what Cameron did. He wrote his predecessor's right wing manifesto, then rebranded as friendly centrist, 'Call Me' Dave, to get elected as PM. This probably sums up the folly of creating a political phenotype out of thin air in an attempt to woo voters. Only May and Truss pursued conviction policies after that, and May's hands were tied by the absurd Brexit referendum result.

Which probably leads us to the answer posed by the OP. The Tories will do whatever the person they elect as leader thinks is a good idea, provided they can populate a shadow cabinet with like-minded chums. If they truly believes in their ideas, then they may find themselves back in government. If it is all gimmickry and bullshit (randomly selecting to back Brexit the night before deciding, followed by all the other gimcrack schemes and wheezes culminating in Rwanda), they are f***ed.

The Tories don't matter for a while now; if they are clever they will keep quiet.

I didn't vote for this new government, but I will certainly be giving them a chance. I hope they do well - and if they do then they will deserve a second term.

 

[sparkie]

They promised things that appealed to both sides, of course, but in the final days Starmer was saying “we’ll won’t rejoin the EU in my lifetime” and similar things designed to reassure voters in non-city-centre constituencies - not to fire up his core voters.

Luckily Starmer is older than me so his lifetime is statisically shorter than mine.

Not that I am particularly bothered by EU membership.

Single Market membership is the jewel in the crown.

Get it done.

 

[Bodian]

They promised things that appealed to both sides, of course, but in the final days Starmer was saying “we’ll won’t rejoin the EU in my lifetime” and similar things designed to reassure voters in non-city-centre constituencies - not to fire up his core voters.

I think he said something more along the lines of him not seeing a way it would be likely to happen in his lifetime - rather than he would prevent it from happening? Bit like me saying 'can't see Brighton winning the PL in my lifetime'.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Short memories. Boris Johnson was voted in only 5 years ago. You don't need to be "common as muck" like private-school educated Sir Kier Starmer. (Yes, I do know that he started at a grammar school before it was shut down by his own party, though obviously his parents' Labour principles were too woolly to make him leave the school. )

Starmer increased the Labour share of the vote by taking mostly from the SNP, not the Tories. The lost Tory vote went to Reform, or Green, or stayed at home. Yes, there would be fiddling round the edges as all parties took a few votes from each other, and there would be votes lost to the fanatic pro-Palestinian independents. But essentially, he got no more votes than Corbyn.

Contrary to received wisdom on here, I believe that the Tories are as left wing as they have ever been. They tax more than any Labour government since Attlee, they spend ditto, they believe in immigration at levels far above any previous government of any hue. They believe in accepting EU legislation when they don't have to, they believe that criminals should not be sent to jail and should be released as early as possible if they are, they are opposed to private landlords (and by extension private tenants), and they appear to believe that all problems can be solved by more government intervention.

They need to move right, not left. They won't win votes with a policy of being just like Labour or Liberals.

A move to the right will be interesting. They might attract some of the rabble who voted Reform but they will also lose their moderate voters. Further, Reform has a particular brand which is attractive to a certain type who will not be interested in the Tories. A merge/takeover will be the only way the Tories can kill off the Reform vote.

They were also starting to lose corporate donors in the final run up to the election; makes sense as they do not want to be associated with such a toxic party, this will accelerate.

Either way, they’re f***ed in the short to medium term.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Except that:

2019 Labour: 10,269,051 (32.1%)
2023 Labour: 9,712,011 (33.8%)

Labour really haven't moved much. In fact less turned out for them. Which brings me to my point.

Reform won this election for Labour. And, for what my uninformed opinion is worth, it means we will see a merger of views between them and the Tories. The eye will be on the 2029 election and there only being a handful of Refrom MPs makes no odds. The Tories will have the fact that Reform are second in around 100 seats in mind. And, more importantly, they wooed their hardcore.

So I give you- Suella Braverman who will be chomping at the bit for the chance. A person of colour with right wing views. The perfect candidate. The darling of the haters.

No more wishy washy centre ground. The media will be on board, the culture war explodes. Labour was to be the end of it. Wrong, it's the start.

JRM was asked about Farage early this morning. Would the Tory party join with Reform ? He batted off the question and instead of 'Mr Farage' it was 'Nigel'. That was enough for me. The Tories didn't attack him personally in the campaign, they just (rightly) said a vote for him was a vote for Labour. But now they need him. Or, perhaps, need to become like him. Or he will destroy them.

Red wall example of my point:

View attachment 185250
The combined Reform and Conservative vote is 50%.

You’re both confirming and ignoring that people voted in many seats to get the Tories out.

We’re seeing in France today that the other parties are trying to work together to keep the far right out.

If the Tories lurch even further to the right then you’ll see another electoral pact between centre and centre left voters in 2029 to stop fascism taking over here.

That does assume that SKS doesn’t massively fail and implode, but I can’t see that happening. He’s a very competent administrator, which is exactly what we need at the moment.

The Tories/Reform are also totally unelectable in Scotland. That will be Labour or SNP for another two generations.

 

[zefarelly]

You can't just add the Conservative and Reform votes together.

There's all sorts of reasons for people to vote for different parties, and the tories shifting to the right will cost them as many votes as they'd pick up from the Conservative minded Reform side.

Also, the moment Reform dissappear or merge with the Tories, the dedicated protest voters will just dissappear to vote for somebody else, just like they did when the Lib Dems went into coalition.

So what you're saying is that a good proprtion of the voting population are just floaters.

I'd agree with that.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

It seems like the Tories are going down the headbanger route, this morning voting for a Tommy Robinson fan to chair the '1922 Committee' and with Kemi Banedoch being the current favourite amongst members for next leader.

 

[Simster]

It seems like the Tories are going down the headbanger route, this morning voting for a Tommy Robinson fan to chair the '1922 Committee' and with Kemi Banedoch being the current favourite amongst members for next leader.

If they continue with this, then they will be in the wilderness for years. They need to put daylight between themselves and Reform and the reason that needs to happen is simply that the people in charge of Reform are past looking at cosey deals or merging with the Tories. Ten years ago, the headbanger route might have worked with Reform buy-in, but it won't anymore.