[Politics] Tory voters- where do you go from here?

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Alternatively, you put a black woman in charge and there you have it. 'How can we be racist when.. ?'

They voted for Sunak.

I don't believe that colour is actually so much an issue for them now. They just want hardened right wing attitudes. It wouldn't get much better for them than a black person who is 'one of us'. If i was of their ilk I'd be shouting for Cruella Braverman though.

Sunak lost one leadership election to Liz Truss, and was unopposed when he became leader. He was never elected by the Conservative membership.

July–September 2022 Conservative Party leadership election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

October 2022 Conservative Party leadership election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The Rivet]

Watching Newsnight earlier, only about 36% of Reform voters would consider voting Conservative as an alternative. The next largest party was Labour on 16% or so, with a portion for Lib Dems and Greens below that. They are, to a large extent, just the latest depository for the "they're all a bunch of tossers" protest vote.

People on the left of the Labour party insist that their policies are wildly popular as well, but that doesn't mean they're any good at winning elections with them. I remember in 2015 telling my left wing friends that Labour would never win under Corbyn or anybody from that wing of the party. I don't see the conservative situation much differently

I also remember being assured around the same time that the Conservatives had won a majority in 2015 because people wanted "proper Conservative policies" after the coalition, which a) doesn't stand up to even brief scrutiny when you look at the voting figures, and b) leads to the conclusion that the Conservatives have had ample opportunity to implement such policies, and have found they're either terrible ideas or aren't actually popular or both.

Yep I see your argument but I think it's missing the point. It would appear Reform never viewed this election as winnable. So that is irrelevant. It appears the aim was to destroy the tories who they see as wet lettuce 'one nation' centrist tories, for being too left of center, in their view. They wanted a voice in Parliament, they got it. So, if we accept it was never about 'winning' now, they have achieved their goal. Again, fact. Many don't like it but there you go

 

[Eeyore]

Sunak lost one leadership election to Liz Truss, and was unopposed when he became leader. He was never elected by the Conservative membership.

July–September 2022 Conservative Party leadership election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

October 2022 Conservative Party leadership election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quite. But he still manged 42% of the members vote against Truss. And he's not really right wing.

 

[clapham_gull]

Why fascinating? Many people believe that the Tories were not right wing enough. 4m votes for Reform would certainly suggest that. A lot of people in Brighton and on this forum may not agree with that but nevertheless it's fact.

Reform picked up votes from both major parties and I can see that many voters have swung to the extremes. See the support of Corbyn.

But to suggest that you win power by going the same way in this country is frankly bullshit.

You are clearly confused by how you think politically (which is a fact) with how most other people think, which is also a fact.

A Government that thought it wasn't "right wing enough" got removed by one with thoughts to the centre and left.

That's democracy.

 

[BadFish]

My view of UK politics over my lifetime is that the Tories are the default government. The UK electorate are right leaning and love a right leaning government.

This election was really all about the a Tories. Labour won a landslide because the Tories sunk to new lows.

Unless this election os the beginning of a seachange of the UK electorate (I see little evidence of this) the the plan is surely simple.

I can imagine the discussion around the electorate stand up and booting them out ends with "yeah but did you see how much we can f*** them before they do?".

They just need to raise themselves above a very low bar (far lower than it is for other parties) and the votes will return.

However labour do, the right wing voice/press will sooner or later (let's face it sooner) will turn against them, the electorate will follow and the default will be restored.

Youra, cheery and optimistic.

 

[heathgate]

Remain got the working class leavers and Labour already had the metropolitan remainers.

Remember, Labour's vote went up by only 2% yet the Tories dropped by 20%

Which is chuckle worthy as a statistic seemingly ignored by the MSM when declaring the result a landslide.... there was virtually no national vote share swing from Cons to Labour.

 

[heathgate]

Labour won a landslide because the Tories sunk to new lows.

Hardly a landslide, vote share for Labour was only +1.6%... and in fact less people voted for Labour this time than did in their 2019 defeat.

 

[BadFish]

Hardly a landslide, vote share for Labour was only +1.6%... and in fact less people voted for Labour this time than did in their 2019 defeat.

Using the measure that decides the election, seats won. It was a landslide.

But yes by vote share, it wasn't.

 

[Juan Albion]

This thread reveals the real problem with modern politics. All this talk of should they move to the centre, or move to the right. I wish we could have politicians who simply stand on what they actually believe. Sure, you can elect a leader who is more centre or more right, but you end up with loads of MPs who have to vote for things they don't actually believe in. No wonder politicians have such a poor reputation.

 

[Anger]

U.K. elections in the last 30 years have favoured parties with more moderate policies (I.e ‘central’) and any time one party goes to an extreme then the population pretty much say “you’re not for me”. That was certainly true of Labour under Corbyn and also under Foot and Kinnock.

If the conservatives don’t heed that lesson then they (and Reform) will struggle to gain back from Labour and that could easily lead to a 4+ Term Labour government or even a stronger Lib Dem party getting a look-in at some point if Labour lose their way (more likely as a Lib-Lab power share).

We’ll have to see how this pans out.

 

[Giraffe]

I’d say the conservative brand is broken. Much as it was for Labour in 1979. It will take a long time to recover that and they will have to do more than rebadge the party.

Next leader selection is critical but if they don’t bring Farage etc in to the fold they are going to struggle to get back into power as that centre right vote will continue to be split.

 

[Eeyore]

Which is chuckle worthy as a statistic seemingly ignored by the MSM when declaring the result a landslide.... there was virtually no national vote share swing from Cons to Labour.

There was. A substantial one.

I think Labour lost a lot of points to the Greens and some to the Lib Dems. They also would have lost points to Reform.

So they would have taken those off the Tories.

 

[nevergoagain]

They are so tainted at the moment, it needs a fresh injection of faces which is difficult with the lack of seats now. Too many horrible characters already being tossed around as potential leaders. I would have like to see Ben Wallace stick around but I can see a few more defections/resignations after a few months as things start to work themselves out. As always the number of non voters and the lost votes to other parties will mean that a recovery is possible but it needs someone sensible to steer the ship and provide a credible opposition whilst the rebuild happens.

 

[The Rivet]

Reform picked up votes from both major parties and I can see that many voters have swung to the extremes. See the support of Corbyn.

But to suggest that you win power by going the same way in this country is frankly bullshit.

You are clearly confused by how you think politically (which is a fact) with how most other people think, which is also a fact.

A Government that thought it wasn't "right wing enough" got removed by one with thoughts to the centre and left.

That's democracy.

Reform picked up votes from both major parties and I can see that many voters have swung to the extremes. See the support of Corbyn.

But to suggest that you win power by going the same way in this country is frankly bullshit.

You are clearly confused by how you think politically (which is a fact) with how most other people think, which is also a fact.

A Government that thought it wasn't "right wing enough" got removed by one with thoughts to the centre and left.

That's democracy.

I suggest you read my post #62

Reform picked up votes from both major parties and I can see that many voters have swung to the extremes. See the support of Corbyn.

But to suggest that you win power by going the same way in this country is frankly bullshit.

You are clearly confused by how you think politically (which is a fact) with how most other people think, which is also a fact.

A Government that thought it wasn't "right wing enough" got removed by one with thoughts to the centre and left.

That's democracy.

I suggest you read my post #62

 

[A1X]

The Tories won’t get anywhere near power until they’ve had their equivalent of “Kinnock faces down Militant” where a centrist leader faces down and conclusively beats the headbangers in the rank and file.

It’s pretty clear they’re in no mood to have this conversation right now, and as such will not win the next election unless Starmer punches the
King or something. The lesson they’re choosing to listen to, predictably but wrongly, is they need to be “more Conservative coz Reform”. Music to Starmer’s ears.

When there’s a Tory leader who is prepared to talk about Brexit in a negative sense and backed by the membership (and not just in a “it’s great and been betrayed” sense), that’ll be when the Tories are in an electable space again.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

It would be nice if the Tories dropped trying to stir up culture wars and dog whistle politics. Sadly they have too many "we're not racist, but", who are also thick as mince. Hunt was a slight glimmer in a pool of sh*t.

 

[Weststander]

It’d be great to see the Truss/Baker/ERG brand of politics nowhere near power in the UK ever again.

But I fear you cannot say that won’t happen. The European migration crisis isn’t going away, who knows when the next great recession will happen. In those moments many move to the extremes.

 

[Motogull]

I would advise the tories to look forward not backwards and adopt a 'we will get back in when the time is right' approach. Trying too hard too early might be harmful.

Consign the likes of Johnson and his like to the bin, put calm talking smart people front and centre, and in good time, they will rise again. Soon enough the Farage novelty will wear off and their support base will rebalance naturally.

 

[Weststander]

I would advise the tories to look forward not backwards and adopt a 'we will get back in when the time is right' approach. Trying too hard too early might be harmful.

Consign the likes of Johnson and his like to the bin, put calm talking smart people front and centre, and in good time, they will rise again. Soon enough the Farage novelty will wear off and their support base will rebalance naturally.

Farage …. I think’s he got a short attention span. He’ll be yearning to spend time in the US in Oct/Nov as his orange mate bounces towards The White House. His sole contribution to UK politics will be grandstanding soundbites to stir the pot.

 

[A1X]

It would be quite fun if all the non-Reform voters in Clacton spent their time just bombarding him with MP stuff (potholes, bin collections, roadworks etc). He’d hate it.

Even more than he’ll hate the fact his finances have to be fully declared and transparent and his interests properly registered.