Tory - The caring conservatives

[hans kraay fan club]

How THICK some people on here are. This is the "Tax Payers Alliance", not the Conservative Party. Reported by the BBC so that all the angry and aggressive lefties will start spouting their usual bile and hatred.

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/our_mission

The TPA’s mission is to:

Change the perception that big government is necessary and irreversible
Explain the benefits of a low tax economy
Give taxpayers a voice in the corridors of power

We achieve this by releasing pioneering research into taxation and government spending. Our research team uses the Freedom of Information Act to uncover information previously hidden from taxpayers. In the last year we’ve written 28 papers based on more than 4,100 FOI requests. We also publish books to build on our research, most recently Let Them Eat Carbon and How to Cut Public Spending (and Still Win an Election).

Hang your heads in shame lefties.

blah. blah, blah.

These people are Tories, pure and simple. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise - they wouldn't even argue otherwise, themselves. The OP condemned them as 'Tories' btw, not as 'the Tory government'.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

hands up who thinks that winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, and the Christmas bonus should be means tested, or at least taxable? those not raised does it sit ok with you that a pensioner with say £15-20k income can get a number of handouts, while those surviving on the basic state probably don't have enough? have you seen the cost of the pensions on the UK spending? if you arent concerned about how those who need it will get anything in the next generations, you arent understanding the pension problem.

Free bus passes only cost something when they are actually used. Wealthy pensioners don't bother claiming the card so therefore don't use it. It doesn't need to be means tested.
Means testing the winter fuel allowance would cost more than paying it universally, as you then need to employ staff to means test it.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Not nother Tory bashing thread - and this time it's not even a Tory minister, it's a Think Tank Director from the Taxpayers Alliance. Jeez. Calm down people, you'll give yourself a rash.

But it's bashing tories - or tory thinking people - that makes life worthwhile! - other than being two points clear and unbeaten after however many games it is, and looking forward to seeing my granddaughter next week, and my wife picking up her new car today (nothing flash), and .......... oh well, I suppose there are other things in life, but....

 

[Nibble]

Sorry but I don't buy that. You've been very specific about which party you hate over the last year and it's certainly not the Labour Party. As I say, it's difficult to talk about universal benefits for pensioners without it invoking strong feelings that any cut feels immoral but as others have said, the debate needs to be made nonetheless. When the Fabian Society do it, you're silent but when the Tories do it you're apoplectic with rage. Funny that.

It makes absolutely no odds whether you "buy that" or not.


P.S it's far from rage, it's resigned disapproval.

 

[Man of Harveys]

This is the "Tax Payers Alliance", not the Conservative Party. Reported by the BBC so that all the angry and aggressive lefties will start spouting their usual bile and hatred.

BBC=nothing more than a bunch of lefties. Great stuff. Anyone coming out with blether like that and immediately you know you're in the realms of the demented Major Misunderstanding from Viz. At least he's funny.

 

[Buzzer]

Did I miss the part where the FS report suggests that early in the term is a good time to bring in these cuts, as lots of the pensioners will be dead by the next election, or will have 'forgotten who did it'?

Even if you accept the need for cuts / austerity (lets not start that general point all over again) this kind of ruthless cynicism is unpalatable to most right-minded people.

As HT has pointed out, early in the thread, this is Alan B'staad brought to life. A living embodiment of the nasty Tory. If it wasn't so tragic, it would be funny.

Yes, the language is appalling, there's no denying that but this opportunism is on show on all sides of the political spectrum. The TPA should never have said that but you'd be a naive fool to think that Labour aren't guilty of the very same cynical attitudes. What about Alistair Campbell, Kevin Maguire and Damian McBride who are prime examples of vicious, spiteful, attack dogs who were brought into the very heart of the last Labour Governments. - not just some fringe think-tank.

But yes - only the Tories are nasty - obviously.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The £10 Christmas bonus is almost insulting, and the Government can take it away today, if it helps someone else.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

blah. blah, blah.

These people are Tories, pure and simple. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise - they wouldn't even argue otherwise, themselves. The OP condemned them as 'Tories' btw, not as 'the Tory government'.

I'm not even going to try and compete with the superior intellect of the Guardian readers on here, however, the TPA was founded in 2004 by "a group of "libertarian" Conservatives, frustrated by what they saw as the party's decision to ditch its traditional tax cutting message and was referred to in The Guardian as "arguably the most influential pressure group in the country" in 2009. For the record, I don't agree with any of their recommendations and would not vote for any party that implemented them.

 

[Bob!]

I'm still hanging my head in shame for voting for Blair. Not only did his government get us into the economic mess we're still trying to get out of, but it took us to a war that's still shaping the world for the worse.

Still peddling that crap then?
Nothing to do with the Banks?

 

[GT49er]

"I hope all decent, caring Tories will quickly make their voices heard in condemnation."

An interesting suggestion. How much of your time do you spend making your voice heard condemning organisations that you have no connection with, do not represent you and you do not consider speaking on behalf of you?

Nice bit of nit-picking there, Sir! "Voices" and "Heard" in this context does not necessarily involve vocalisation. I, for example, sometimes try to make my 'voice heard' by posting something on line, on NSC for example. Besides, for the decent caring Tories, you may have noticed that they have a thumping great conference going on, precisely a forum in which they can make their voices heard.
Lastly, it is rather more than disingenuous to imply that a right wing pressure group, comprising Tory Party members and attending the Tory Party conference is nothing to do with the Tories (to quote you, "Organisations that you have no connection with")

Regardless, I don't want you to be unhappy about this, so I've just condemned it using the strongest possible language. However as I'm in my house by myself no one heard me. Does it still count?

That's most gracious of you ....... but somehow I have just the tiniest doubt about the sincerity of your condemnation, so no, it probably doesn't count!

 

[Triggaaar]

Are you now claiming that the global financial crises was the responsibility of Blair?

I am claiming that we would have been in a better position were it not Labour's policies.

You are aware that prior to the crisis, spending was only just under 40% of GDP

That's the problem with only looking at spending as a percentage of current GDP - if you have a few boom years and increase your spending too much, you're completely shafted when the next down turn comes, because you can't suddenly drop spending back to where it was. Suddenly your debt is rising out of control (with the associated interest payments thrown in for good measure) and your trying to control it in the midst of a recession.

 

[gregbrighton]

Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.

Tory ideology down to a tee. Nasty wankers.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I'm not even going to try and compete with the superior intellect of the Guardian readers on here,

Just as well. I've read the Guardian no more than 4-5 times in my life.

however, the TPA was founded in 2004 by "a group of "libertarian" Conservatives

Oh, I see - you meant it about not arguing. Thank you for reinforcing my point.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

BBC=nothing more than a bunch of lefties. Great stuff. Anyone coming out with blether like that and immediately you know you're in the realms of the demented Major Misunderstanding from Viz. At least he's funny.

I was referring to the way that the article was written, which achieved it's objective, at least on here, you just have to read many of the posts above, which I can't be bothered to quote. The usual sheep tarring all Conservative voters with the same brush, at any opportunity, fuelled by the politics of envy. I don't agree with the TPA and find their suggestions odious in the extreme.

 

[drew]

How THICK some people on here are. This is the "Tax Payers Alliance", not the Conservative Party. Reported by the BBC so that all the angry and aggressive lefties will start spouting their usual bile and hatred.

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/our_mission

The TPA’s mission is to:

Change the perception that big government is necessary and irreversible
Explain the benefits of a low tax economy
Give taxpayers a voice in the corridors of power

We achieve this by releasing pioneering research into taxation and government spending. Our research team uses the Freedom of Information Act to uncover information previously hidden from taxpayers. In the last year we’ve written 28 papers based on more than 4,100 FOI requests. We also publish books to build on our research, most recently Let Them Eat Carbon and How to Cut Public Spending (and Still Win an Election).

Hang your heads in shame lefties.

And you accuse others of being thick. Beggars belief.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Just as well. I've read the Guardian no more than 4-5 times in my life.



Oh, I see - you meant it about not arguing. Thank you for reinforcing my point.

Where did I say you were a Guardian reader? And thanks for editing the second quote to reverse it's meaning, very clever!

 

[fat old seagull]

Not nother Tory bashing thread - and this time it's not even a Tory minister, it's a Think Tank Director from the Taxpayers Alliance. Jeez. Calm down people, you'll give yourself a rash.

Of course it's a Tory bashing thread. And mightily deserved it appears to be too. If you seriously believe this has nothing to do with the Conservatives you are seriously naive. I have over the years voted for candidates from a number of political parties, mostly as I don't like 'party politics'. And over the years of hearing socialists banging on about uncaring Tories, I wonder why it's taken me so long to realise they appear to be right.

 

[GT49er]

The £10 Christmas bonus is almost insulting, and the Government can take it away today, if it helps someone else.

Yes, all of £10. I get my old age pension paid into my bank account every four weeks these days, so I suppose I must be getting the Christmas Bonus too, but I honestly hadn't noticed it! So, if the Christmas Bonus was part of the proposed cuts I wouldn't be too bothered.

Hands off my bus pass though, or I will be out looking for blood!

 

[drew]

There are really two issues here, The first is reform of benefits. I am not averse to benefits being means tested. The Tories (in coalition) means tested child benefit but let's be honest, they ****ed that up so I wouldn't hold out too much hope they would get others right. However, if they did, the advantages are to either release funds for other things, reduce taxation, or increase the benefit that actually gets paid to the needy.

The other issue is the language used. I don't doubt for one minute that the phraseology was deliberately provocative but it doesn't show the TPA in a good light and, by association, conservatives. People are quite right, this is not being announced as a formal policy but the eagle eyed will have noted Liam Fox, form defence minister, sitting on the top table.

The idea that you only serve those that vote for you flies in the face of our democratic system. An MP represents everyone of his constituents, not just those that voted for him/her or, as it may seem, those that will be around to vote for him/her at the next election.

 

[beorhthelm]

Free bus passes only cost something when they are actually used. Wealthy pensioners don't bother claiming the card so therefore don't use it. It doesn't need to be means tested..

you are joking? about a dozen grans, aunts/uncles etc eligible has claimed it, and use it for sightseeing or popping to town to the pub (rather than walk). its like a right of passage to get once you're a pensioner. and half of them are still working!