[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Peteinblack]

Esther McVey is going full loopy today, by banning rainbow lanyards for civil servants and saying they will have to wear uniform lanyards (mine used to be BHAFC) and she doesn't want foreign students coming to British universities (their fees keep the unis open)

I thought the Conservatives were opposed to banning things, because that's 'cancel culture' and denial of free-speech

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I thought the Conservatives were opposed to banning things, because that's 'cancel culture' and denial of free-speech

It certainly isn’t common sense which is her portfolio.

 

[A1X]

 

[beorhthelm]

Their problem is that they follow the US Republican Party playbook and that party was a busted flush and hollowed out by the Tea Party / MAGA / Christian Right lunatics some time ago.

There is no longer any kind of respectable political / economic theory coming from the right. They have had every opportunity to test their theories in real life over coming up for half a century and they just don't work. There is no trickle down effect. Low taxes do not produce growth that lifts all boats. Small Government does not save money. Society is not more equal. Individuals are not more free. It was all wrong. It all failed for all except the richest who were responsible for pushing it in the first place. All they have left is to hang on to electoral power and they have fearmongering about nonsense as their only tactic left to do that, or bypassing electoral power totally which is the step they seem to have been attempting.

funny though quite a few on the right have been saying Conservatives have failed because they haven't done these things. taxes have gone up, spending and government is ever increasing. after some crowing that Blair's New Labour had to adopt Thatherite policies, they now complain Tories adopted Blair policies. the richest that get so much attention are because of the same monety policies followed on both sides of Atlantic, make credit cheap and asset values inflate.

 

[BrianB]

Mad Maria on radio4 this morning explaining this ........ Badly.

Women having ‘harrowing’ births as hospitals hide failures, says MPs’ report

UK birth trauma inquiry finds women variously mocked, ignored, fobbed off with paracetamol and left permanently damaged

www.theguardian.com

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Mad Maria on radio4 this morning explaining this ........ Badly.

Women having ‘harrowing’ births as hospitals hide failures, says MPs’ report

UK birth trauma inquiry finds women variously mocked, ignored, fobbed off with paracetamol and left permanently damaged

www.theguardian.com

That’s horrific.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Almost the end of the road for these charlatans now. Under 6 months of holding your nose I’d anticipate.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Orwell was 40 years early. Newspeak must replace Oldspeak.

 

[Randy McNob]

Hear the Tories are u-turning on criminalising homelessness. Well for one, it's a little too late for that now, and secondly, I forgot they were trying to do that. Don't care if they're u-turning, that's disgusting to think they even thought to do that to people. Utter ****s.

You mean another headline grabbing gimmick is canned, until the next one

 

[TomandJerry]

The cornerstone of Rishi Sunak’s Rwanda deportation policy should not apply in Northern Ireland because it undermines human rights protections guaranteed in the region under post-Brexit arrangements, a high court judge has ruled.

Parts of the UK’s Illegal Migration Act were also incompatible with the European convention on human rights (ECHR), Mr Justice Humphreys said.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Step by stealthy step, like boiling a frog.

First of all, they label the state pension a benefit, then the freeze the tax threshold, reduce the NI payments, then have the right to examine bank accounts of benefit claimants (including pensioners) and now, discussing the idea of means testing the state pension.
It is already the lowest in Europe, below the living wage, and any care has to be paid for.

 

[MJsGhost]

Step by stealthy step, like boiling a frog.

First of all, they label the state pension a benefit, then the freeze the tax threshold, reduce the NI payments, then have the right to examine bank accounts of benefit claimants (including pensioners) and now, discussing the idea of means testing the state pension.
It is already the lowest in Europe, below the living wage, and any care has to be paid for.

Surely means testing the pension is actually a progressive measure?

Any pensioners struggling are presumably not those who would not qualify for a means-tested pension?

IMO something like this needed but I never thought the Tories would want to put their name to it. Wealthy pensioners aren't their usual target when it comes to cutting spending.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Surely means testing the pension is actually a progressive measure?

Any pensioners struggling are presumably not those who would not qualify for a means-tested pension?

IMO something like this needed but I never thought the Tories would want to put their name to it. Wealthy pensioners aren't their usual target when it comes to cutting spending.

In one sense it is, but on the other hand, one of the reasons people have been paying National insurance for 70 years is that theoretically, it has been paying towards their pensions. Those who do not pay enough NI over their working life, get a reduced pension.
So, strictly speaking the state pension is not a benefit, but a reward for working for 35+ years and paying tax to the government.
Of course if NI is abolished, then in future you could argue that pensions become a benefit for those who haven't paid NI and could be means tested, but I don't think you can do that for existing pensioners. Unfortunately, that would lead to a two tier system.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Surely means testing the pension is actually a progressive measure?

Any pensioners struggling are presumably not those who would not qualify for a means-tested pension?

IMO something like this needed but I never thought the Tories would want to put their name to it. Wealthy pensioners aren't their usual target when it comes to cutting spending.

Would you be happy living on £9K a year? A very small private pension of £3500 takes you above the tax threshold so paying income tax.
That is below the minimum wage.

There are a few wealthy pensioners but they aren’t the norm and I can guarantee they aren’t women.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In one sense it is, but on the other hand, one of the reasons people have been paying National insurance for 70 years is that theoretically, it has been paying towards their pensions. Those who do not pay enough NI over their working life, get a reduced pension.
So, strictly speaking the state pension is not a benefit, but a reward for working for 35+ years and paying tax to the government.
Of course if NI is abolished, then in future you could argue that pensions become a benefit for those who haven't paid NI and could be means tested, but I don't think you can do that for existing pensioners. Unfortunately, that would lead to a two tier system.

It’s already a two tier system.
from April 2024: The full state pension rose from £203.85 a week to £221.20 a week, or £11,502 a year. The basic state pension rose from £156.20 a week to £169.50 a week, or £8,814 a year

 

[beorhthelm]

Step by stealthy step, like boiling a frog.

First of all, they label the state pension a benefit, then the freeze the tax threshold, reduce the NI payments, then have the right to examine bank accounts of benefit claimants (including pensioners) and now, discussing the idea of means testing the state pension.
It is already the lowest in Europe, below the living wage, and any care has to be paid for.

a lot of leaps being made there. just because a tweet makes a misinterpretation no need to follow them. pensioners, not pensions, being means tested has been talked about for years. example winter fuel payments, it has long been suggested should only go to those that actually need it. people, pensioners, quite often joke about it being the wine fund or christmas bonus.

edit, lol at the context, Braverman wanting to remove the two child benefit cap. they dont do consistent thinking.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

a lot of leaps being made there. just because a tweet makes a misinterpretation no need to follow them. pensioners, not pensions, being means tested has been talked about for years. example winter fuel payments, it has long been suggested should only go to those that actually need it. people, pensioners, quite often joke about it being the wine fund or christmas bonus.

The only leap is the final discussion. The rest has already happened. Pensioners joke about the winter fuel allowance so it should be means tested? Exactly how many pensioners joke about wine funds? Numbers please not apocryphal gossip.

 

[Gwylan]

Step by stealthy step, like boiling a frog.

First of all, they label the state pension a benefit, then the freeze the tax threshold ...

There's a big gap between these though. The state pension was defined as a benefit in the National Insurance Act of 1946, it's a bit late to be objecting to that

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There's a big gap between these though. The state pension was defined as a benefit in the National Insurance Act of 1946, it's a bit late to be objecting to that

Oh, that's alright then.

There was also Pritti Patel referring to people as working and nonworking units.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Esther McVey is going full loopy today, by banning rainbow lanyards for civil servants and saying they will have to wear uniform lanyards (mine used to be BHAFC) and she doesn't want foreign students coming to British universities (their fees keep the unis open)

Her speech had all the hallmarks of someone who had lost contact with reality. She also talked about civil servants being distracted by an obsession with diversity. Having worked in a public service diversity was about ensuring that the workforce reflected the society we served and that as wide a section of society as possible had the opportunity to contribute and develop. This gave us the best chance of employing the best people. It was also about services being accessible to all. This was not a ‘woke’ obsession or distraction but simply being committed and professional. Truth is that when I retired 2 years ago we still had some way to go. As for lanyards, I also wore a BHAFC one.