[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Kinky Gerbil]

Wow. This government centre LEFT??

Hilarious really when you consider the party under Johnson was more left than any Tory Gov in my time.

Then again it’s hard to think of a policy they actually kept with

 

[The Clamp]

I don’t think it’s useful to think of the Tory’s as left or right.

They occasionally pass a bill that either takes away some rights of normal people or enhances the rights of the elite. All designed to transfer money from the less well off, to the wealthy.

They are not a legitimate political party. They have zero interest in politics They exist solely to protect and enhance the interests of the wealthy elite.

They are the closest thing we have to the devil incarnate and need to be removed from power before they destroy the U.K. Although I fear we have already passed that mark.

 

[nicko31]

Hilarious really when you consider the party under Johnson was more left than any Tory Gov in my time.

Then again it’s hard to think of a policy they actually kept with

Johnson wasn't anything, just whatever he suited his own personal ambition.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Predictions? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64029040

 

[The Clamp]

Predictions? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64029040

Government shifting blame again. They chose them to provide PPE because they give the Tory’s money.
Talk about throwing your mates under the bus!

 

[Acker79]

An interesting blogpost from a legal expert.

How the government won but also lost the court case on Rwanda removal policy

19th December 2022 Today the High Court handed down its judgment in respect of the many legal claims brought against the Rwanda removal policy. On the face of it, the government of the United Kingd…

davidallengreen.com

 

[WATFORD zero]

I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?

Knowing one or two people who were obviously a lot closer to it than you were, I can put your mind at rest and assure you that your suspicions are completely and utterly unfounded. Indeed, some less charitable than my good self may even use the term 'foolish'.

And there is lots and lots of evidence, hence the panic and arse covering of those involved (I did give a list of some of those involved, the ones easily identifiable with 5 minutes of spare time with a Google search page ) now we are finally getting round to investigating and setting up the relevant committees - see Horse, Bolt, Gate etc

But you keep desperately trying to find a defence for this corrupt cabal, that definitely had you and your fellow Burnley based football supporters at the forefront of their agenda throughout

 

[Springal]

I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

I posted a family members experience during the time in the main covid thread - she is a senior director in the NHS and was put on a procurement taskforce. 6 months work, only got 1 PPE order approved. Everything else on the existing suppliers list just went into a black hole for approval and nothing ever came back or was. Government basically took away any power the NHS had to do it themselves

 

[Simster]

I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?

My personal anecdotal evidence that predictably contradicts your stupid wishful thinking, sorry I mean "benefit of the doubt" is the mate of mine who lives five doors down. He works for an animal laboratory and was quite adamant that his firm were ready to go with the production of PPE almost at the drop of a hat. He said they hadn't because there was no sensible channel for tendering and it was almost as if the government was doing what it could not to have companies like theirs tendering for the equipment.

Now you can spin it any way you like, but the bottom line is that the people in charge (the government) did nothing to ease bureaucracy at the time of crisis when there were companies perfectly capable of delivering working PPE.

Your slavish devotion to these twats because they've delivered Brexit (despite it being as shit as everything else they do) is usually annoying, but this post was just plain embarrassing.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?

FFS, Civil servants are very risk adverse. There is no way on planet earth would they go for some fly by night outfit unless specifically instructed to by a corrupt piece of excrement masquerading as a government minister.

 

[The Clamp]

Bob Stewart MP tells human rights activist to 'go back to Bahrain'

Human rights activist Sayed Ahmed Alwadaei has complained to the Tory Party over the incident.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[beorhthelm]

Now you can spin it any way you like, but the bottom line is that the people in charge (the government) did nothing to ease bureaucracy at the time of crisis when there were companies perfectly capable of delivering working PPE.

there is a counter point to that, at the time the suppliers of PPE themselves said they could not provide enough material, as factories and supply chains where swamped with global demand. some details will come out in the inevitable inquiry, some probably wont to save the embarrassment of many who failed in their purpose to plan and respond to such events.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

there is a counter point to that, at the time the suppliers of PPE themselves said they could not provide enough material, as factories and supply chains where swamped with global demand. some details will come out in the inevitable inquiry, some probably wont to save the embarrassment of many who failed in their purpose to plan and respond to such events.

There were quite a few established PPE firms who put in for contracts who were completely ignored.

 

[clapham_gull]

I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?

Dear oh dear, clearly no knowledge of the workings of the public sector life.

You'd made yourself look a bit silly there.

 

[clapham_gull]

If natural Conservatives are in an doubt how extreme they have become after the Johnson purge it's worth pointing out the deranged ramblings of MP Johnathan Gullis.

Now complaining about Bishops "using the pulpit to preach from"

Tory MP attacks bishops for ‘using the pulpit to preach from’

Stoke-on-Trent MP told to ‘look up the meaning of Bishop in the dictionary’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[dsr-burnley]

Dear oh dear, clearly no knowledge of the workings of the public sector life.

You'd made yourself look a bit silly there.

But I still don't know whether the government specifically told the civil service that they must not get PPE from existing suppliers even if it was available - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether they personally took over the system of ordering and refused to let any civil servants have a go at it - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether they created a brand new system in which they deliberately excluded anyone with any knowledge of the system and ensured none of them were able to ask - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether the civil service was to some extent at fault.

I don't believe in this scenario whereby the minister was solely responsible for procurement and none of the 6,500 NHS England staff, and none of the 3,000 Department of Health staff, had any access to any of the ordering system. There must have been incompetence by some of them as well as by the minister.

If, as you all suggest, the minister said that he would do it all himself and his staff could take the time off, then there must be memos about it. But until I see more than rumours on a stridently anti-Tory message board, I won't believe that Hancock and only Hancock was able to order PPE.

 

[dsr-burnley]

If natural Conservatives are in an doubt how extreme they have become after the Johnson purge it's worth pointing out the deranged ramblings of MP Johnathan Gullis.

Now complaining about Bishops "using the pulpit to preach from"

Tory MP attacks bishops for ‘using the pulpit to preach from’

Stoke-on-Trent MP told to ‘look up the meaning of Bishop in the dictionary’

www.independent.co.uk

Don't be fatuous. His quote was only three sentences long and even if you've never read anything longer than a twitter thread you know that he's talking about preaching politics. You can get any politician to say anything if you take it completely out of context.

Gullis replied: “I don’t think unelected bishops in the House of Lords should be preaching about politics. I think they should be looking in-house at the wide abuse claims, and the Archbishop of Canterbury should be spending his time focusing on the Church’s reputation. I sadly think that there are too many people using the pulpit to preach from, and actually I think they’re out of touch with the overall majority of this great country.”

 

[clapham_gull]

Or whether they created a brand new system in which they deliberately excluded anyone with any knowledge of the system and ensured none of them were able to ask.....

If you have followed the subsequent legal actions you are clearly nearer to the truth.

Remember who was in Government at the time. A Prime Minister who never followed a rule in his life and an unhinged personal advisor with a deep seated hatred of the existing systems.

The only conspiracy being that the electorate voted democratically to allow the country to be ruled by a number chancers, oddballs and ideological extremists who took the Conservative party in a very very odd direction.

Nothing should be of surprise to you.

 

[clapham_gull]

Don't be fatuous. His quote was only three sentences long and even if you've never read anything longer than a twitter thread you know that he's talking about preaching politics. You can get any politician to say anything if you take it completely out of context.

Gullis replied: “I don’t think unelected bishops in the House of Lords should be preaching about politics. I think they should be looking in-house at the wide abuse claims, and the Archbishop of Canterbury should be spending his time focusing on the Church’s reputation. I sadly think that there are too many people using the pulpit to preach from, and actually I think they’re out of touch with the overall majority of this great country.”

You clearly don't follow the work of Gullis very closely.

 

[Motogull]

You clearly don't follow the work of Gullis very closely.

Gullis is an oddball and no mistake.