[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Hamilton]

God help us!

Liz Truss would be a total and utter disaster.

Mordaunt would be just as bad.

Rishi is the best of a bad bunch.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No, read what I wrote again and try to understand it this time.



They are, but in the new, divide and conquer, binary, Brexit and Culture Wars world they will have to pick a side and I suspect Kemi, Suella and a couple of others have picked the wrong one.

Of course it's GREAT to have a BAME person waffling non stop shite about "woke" and "cancel culture" without ever fully understanding or explaining it but, at the end of the day, saying the sort of things that Britain First support should be making you reconsider your life choices. We're far too close to the "some of my best mates are black" argument for my liking.

The editor of the Guardian has tweeted the press release from Britain First so people can read it for themselves.

[tweet]1549100073241427969[/tweet]

 

[WATFORD zero]

Like you I am a bit amazed that anyone would take such a view. This thread probably isn’t for me.

I think you may be right.

A bit like the Brexit thread, I wouldn't think a thread highlighting the inherent dishonesty, dodgy financial and political backers etc of the self absorbed prospective 'New Tory Party' leaders would be the sort of thread for a proud middle of the road 'floating voter' like yourself

 

[Guinness Boy]

The editor of the Guardian has tweeted the press release from Britain First so people can read it for themselves.

[tweet]1549100073241427969[/tweet]

And the language of that is terrifying.

The far right has "infiltrated" the Conservative Party and "orders" - yes ORDERS its spies to vote in one particular way, so that this country only ever has one type of Prime Minister from now on in.

Still, I'm sure Kemi's on record as telling them thanks but no thanks and getting an investigation into the corruption of the membership from the highest levels right now.

 

[A1X]

And the language of that is terrifying.

The far right has "infiltrated" the Conservative Party and "orders" - yes ORDERS its spies to vote in one particular way, so that this country only ever has one type of Prime Minister from now on in.

Still, I'm sure Kemi's on record as telling them thanks but no thanks and getting an investigation into the corruption of the membership from the highest levels right now.

But remember, when people who were a bit left wing infiltrated the Labour party it was "shameful" and "proves that Labour can't be trusted"...

 

[beorhthelm]

Sure hope the latest Tory members poll is an aberration! They seem to have been all over the place since the start of this contest.

Makes you wonder what they’re smoking? Why on earth would they want the self-styled “continuity” candidate?

Are they really stupid enough to want another 2+ years of the same shambolic government?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

its like the MPs and members are disconnected. imagine selecting an option for balance then finding out the membership really want that candidate as leader?
until this week Mordaunt was clear favorite from membership, so clever MPs would know what to do here.

 

[Hugo Rune]

But remember, when people who were a bit left wing infiltrated the Labour party it was "shameful" and "proves that Labour can't be trusted"...

And here is some analysis from the lefty woke BBC on Badenoch:

“Although she's left the race, Kemi Badenoch is undoubtedly the breakthrough candidate of this campaign.

She won support and gained attention with her straight talking approach, pitch for honesty and firm grasp of complex issues.

While other candidates scrapped about whether to cut taxes, Badenoch was clearly trying to set a new agenda.

Whether colleagues agreed with her or not, many admired her command of social and cultural issues which have divided the party.

One MP, backing a rival candidate, described her as "the new darling of the right"

With a group of 59 MPs behind her, she could still have a big influence on the outcome of the race by openly backing one of the remaining contenders.”

 

[chip]

When, per the governments' own statistics https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...its/employment/employment/latest#by-ethnicity BAME people had an unemployment rate of 44% compared to the white 22%, when the UPP Foundation states black students are 1.5 times more likely to drop out of University than white and when stop and search significantly impacts on the lives of young black men more than any other cohort, then perhaps they should.

But what you said is not true. The data you point to is about EMPLOYMENT. Unemployment rate is not 1-employed rate. You also, possibly selectively, chose the employment rate for a particular ethnic group, it doe not apply to all, using the outdated term, BAME people. The UPP report said:
Many of the disadvantaged groups targeted through the government’s Widening Access programme are also the groups who are most likely to drop out. Institutions are more likely to have higher drop-out rates where:

They have a higher in-take of black students.
They have a higher proportion of students whose parents work(ed) in lower level occupations.
They have a higher proportion of students who come from low participation localities.

https://upp-foundation.org/study-fi...er-students-likely-drop-english-universities/

I notice you didn't mention any other ethnic groups, why? No don't bother, I'm sure you know why.

The data you cite is much more nuanced than you give it credit, just like the people who you want to "defend" in a rather strange attack on one individual. I'm a scientist, I like real analysis from sound data. I also found your expression didn't sit comfortably with me either. Just doing a bit of "fact checking".

 

[A1X]

And here is some analysis from the lefty woke BBC on Badenoch:

“Although she's left the race, Kemi Badenoch is undoubtedly the breakthrough candidate of this campaign.

She won support and gained attention with her straight talking approach, pitch for honesty and firm grasp of complex issues.

While other candidates scrapped about whether to cut taxes, Badenoch was clearly trying to set a new agenda.

Whether colleagues agreed with her or not, many admired her command of social and cultural issues which have divided the party.

One MP, backing a rival candidate, described her as "the new darling of the right"

With a group of 59 MPs behind her, she could still have a big influence on the outcome of the race by openly backing one of the remaining contenders.”

Can’t imagine Corbyn getting a write up like that had he lost in 2015 somehow.

 

[aolstudios]

But remember, when people who were a bit left wing infiltrated the Labour party it was "shameful" and "proves that Labour can't be trusted"...

By "a bit left wing" infiltrating the party, I assume you mean obsessively & very particularly racist?..

 

[A1X]

By "a bit left wing" infiltrating the party, I assume you mean obsessively & very particularly racist?..

Whereas Britain First…

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

Truss is now favourite with nearly every bookmaker on Oddschecker: https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-conservative-leader

I await to hear her plans to make huge tax cuts while at the same time getting the Passport Office running efficiently again and solving the problems the NHS has as well.

 

[Guinness Boy]

But what you said is not true. The data you point to is about EMPLOYMENT. Unemployment rate is not 1-employed rate. You also, possibly selectively, chose the employment rate for a particular ethnic group, it doe not apply to all, using the outdated term, BAME people. The UPP report said:
Many of the disadvantaged groups targeted through the government’s Widening Access programme are also the groups who are most likely to drop out. Institutions are more likely to have higher drop-out rates where:

They have a higher in-take of black students.
They have a higher proportion of students whose parents work(ed) in lower level occupations.
They have a higher proportion of students who come from low participation localities.

https://upp-foundation.org/study-fi...er-students-likely-drop-english-universities/

I notice you didn't mention any other ethnic groups, why? No don't bother, I'm sure you know why.

The data you cite is much more nuanced than you give it credit, just like the people who you want to "defend" in a rather strange attack on one individual. I'm a scientist, I like real analysis from sound data. I also found your expression didn't sit comfortably with me either. Just doing a bit of "fact checking".

The "in employment" rates are highest for whites per that data which is government data. Unless you're saying all the non-whites are students, which they can't be, since you've cited reasons for the higher drop out rate. And you've not mentioned crime or stop and search at all.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I think you may be right.

A bit like the Brexit thread, I wouldn't think a thread highlighting the inherent dishonesty, dodgy financial and political backers etc of the self absorbed prospective 'New Tory Party' leaders would be the sort of thread for a proud middle of the road 'floating voter' like yourself

More the unpleasantness but do carry on.
Brexit, yeah.

 

[chip]

The "in employment" rates are highest for whites per that data which is government data. Unless you're saying all the non-whites are students, which they can't be, since you've cited reasons for the higher drop out rate. And you've not mentioned crime or stop and search at all.

Your argument is not congruent and you have now changed it, I did point out the difference in rates, you are confusing not in employment with unemployment, in part. You've then merged that which my response to drop out rates, why? I was pointing out that there are plenty of groups overly represented in the drop out rates, it's not just a BAME/ethnicity issue and has compounding factors. Maybe they are connected, maybe they aren't. The answer is not in that data. Crime, and stop and search in particular, have been discussed much elsewhere. Are we talking victims or perpetrators, conviction rates, type of crime, etc? My point was using the general term BAME and then using data from specific subgroups to attempt to advance some justification for writing something many people would find distateful. Interesting, the employment rates are highest for white, non-British - maybe there is some clue as to why, to your mind, there are disparities in the different groups. To me, you are willfully misrepresenting the data and that is dishonest.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Your argument is not congruent and you have now changed it, I did point out the difference in rates, you are confusing not in employment with unemployment, in part. You've then merged that which my response to drop out rates, why? I was pointing out that there are plenty of groups overly represented in the drop out rates, it's not just a BAME/ethnicity issue and has compounding factors. Maybe they are connected, maybe they aren't. The answer is not in that data. Crime, and stop and search in particular, have been discussed much elsewhere. Are we talking victims or perpetrators, conviction rates, type of crime, etc? My point was using the general term BAME and then using data from specific subgroups to attempt to advance some justification for writing something many people would find distateful. Interesting, the employment rates are highest for white, non-British - maybe there is some clue as to why, to your mind, there are disparities in the different groups. To me, you are willfully misrepresenting the data and that is dishonest.

BAME isn't a "term" or "subgroup" but the accepted name for Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic people.

White people's employment rates are higher than black people or, indeed, BAME people.

Black people have a higher drop out rate from Higher Education than white people and are adversely represented in stop and search stats.

Which of these do you dispute?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

More the unpleasantness but do carry on.
Brexit, yeah.

It wasn’t pleasant being accused of posting gossip. That’s why I explained it was from the editor of well known broadsheet. Twitter does have some nonsense, as does NSC, but I usually post a source along with the tweet.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

God help us!

Liz Truss would be a total and utter disaster.

Mordaunt would be just as bad.

Rishi is the best of a bad bunch.

Long term Truss would be good, unlikely to win an election

 

[Eeyore]

BAME isn't a "term" or "subgroup" but the accepted name for Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic people.

White people's employment rates are higher than black people or, indeed, BAME people.

Black people have a higher drop out rate from Higher Education than white people and are adversely represented in stop and search stats.

Which of these do you dispute?

But everyone has equal opportunity.

Well.....

Oxford University did a test of that not so long ago by sending out identical CVs and cover letters for jobs using Anglo-Saxon names and names that could be identified to other parts of the planet.

24% from British names got a positive response and 15% from non-British.

Folk from non British backgrounds have to send 60% more applications for a positive response.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It wasn’t pleasant being accused of posting gossip. That’s why I explained it was from the editor of well known broadsheet. Twitter does have some nonsense, as does NSC, but I usually post a source along with the tweet.

Sorry, I did try to explain I take a different view to you on the veracity of anything posted on Twitter as compared to extensively researched articles of journalism. The former can quite reasonably be summarized as gossip. As you will probably guess I don’t have a Twitter account. I’m sorry if I inadvertently upset you but it is hardly comparable with the turn this thread has taken.