[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have also heard this from someone who was in a very senior role.


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The one thing one might say in Johnson's favour is very nuanced. Had we remained in the EU and had labour been in charge (two requirements) it is possible that the start of the vaccine rollout would have been far less intense than it was, because we would have not greedily vacuumed up every available jab over a period of several weeks.

However, had we remained in the EU, the liklihood that we would have gone along with an EU-wide co-ordinated vaccine rollout would have been the same whoever might have been PM. But surely we were able to gain a massive Covid victory precisely because Johnson had taken us out of the EU.....let's see the facts:

As it happens there was no EU requirement for an EU-wide co-ordinated vaccine rollout. Initially Germany also went on a vaccine grab, and voluntarily backed off. They were not compelled. Surely they suffered compared with the UK?

Actually, despite our vaccine grab our Covid death rate is not head and shoulders above the 'wanky' EU nations.

From https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality (I have included some European non-EU nations for completeness)

Nation Deaths/100K population
Finland 88
Denmark 112
Netherlands 134
Ireland 153
Switzerland 160
Germany 170
Luxembourg 175
Sweden 189
Austria 223
France 231
Spain 232
Portugal 239
UK 267
Belgium 278
Italy 279
Greece 291
Poland 308

That is not a triumph, and it does not support any argument that Johnson handled Covid well, and that he was able to give the UK a Covid boost because we were out of the EU.

In any case, our vaccine grab was not even driven by Johnson. It was the NHS itself.

Folks, we have been lied to. Lied and lied and lied again.

Time for the lies to stop.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

you seem to have completely and utterly missed the point of my post. Im not defending anything. I wasnt saying a General election would be a good or bad thing, in fact I wasnt defending the status quo at all- I was simply pointing out that each time there is a PM Change due to a leadership change and not an Election, there are numerous posts saying we should have an election because we didnt vote for the new PM and that it was in fact far more common for there to be a new PM due to that than due to a General election. I made no comment about any politicians calling for an election, indeed my first sentence stated "bin fest on here" .

By all means rip my post apart for factual content if i have it wrong, or disagree with my opinion, but dont have ago at me for something my post did not allude to or contain-

OK - apologies for misreading your post. I must have missed all the previous binfests when a PM stood down and was replaced without a general election. Perhaps because it doesn't offend me particularly when this happens. It seemed to me you were making a deflectionary point. Happy to stand corrected.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

'Chuckled' is very apt.

It would be churlish of me to claim that unintentional bit of comedy was deliberate. Still.....I don't think I'll go back and edit my post. Let it stand.

 

[Titanic]

Our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader... but it won't be Dominic Raab.

 

[Chicken Run]

With all due respect (and it ain't much, tbh), why did you come on this thread, today? Genuine question?

Genuine answer, to confirm I wasn’t seeing things and in fact you have been up way earlier than is normal for you two days on the trot, bravo sir [emoji6]


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[jcdenton08]

Our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader... but it won't be Dominic Raab.

What is the alternative to democracy? Even if it was PR, there will still be bad party leaders, scandals, lies and deceit from all sides. It is part of politics and always will be. There is no option that will please everyone.

Even conservatives are happy Boris is gone, the electorate will have their say again in due course.

 

[Smillie's People]

Oh I am well aware of that - around the time of the vote of no-confidence I lamented on this thread (or another on NSC) that our voting system doesn't allow me to vote separately for my local representative and leader of the country. I would agree though that much of the general populace might not quire realise this. But you and I both know that when people go to the ballot box, the vast majority have got the national leaders in mind, not the name on the ballot sheet. Thus I would imagine the "red wall" will return to voting in Labour candidates at the next election now Boris isn't leader.

What someone was saying on TV last night was that Boris has acted in a "Presidential" style by apeing Trump. Unlike a President who can appoint anyone he likes as official advisors and effectively Ministers, Boris can only pick the Cabinet from MPs and the House of Lords. Trump came from outside the political establishment in the USA, indeed his whole campaign stressed that.

Boris has to be an MP, I wonder what the good folk of Uxbridge think? Like the Underground station, it's the end of the line for BoJo.

 

[JBizzle]

Our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader... but it won't be Dominic Raab.

With this Government it's "Survival of the thickest"

 

[birthofanorange]

Genuine answer, to confirm I wasn’t seeing things and in fact you have been up way earlier than is normal for you two days on the trot, bravo sir [emoji6]


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As I expected, the usual twaddle from you. Do carry on.

 

[Chicken Run]

Been chuckled out of the pub would be my guess.

My guess is that it’s YOU who is more likely to be in a pub at this time of day than me old son, chuckling or otherwise[emoji6]


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[Chicken Run]

As I expected, the usual twaddle from you. Do carry on.

Will do


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[birthofanorange]

Will do


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Ofc, it's what trolls do.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader... but it won't be Dominic Raab.

I am surprised to hear that he's not going to stand. One can only assume that Raab genuinely supports Johnson and considers this affiliation to be an impediment to any personal ambitions he may have.

The silly man.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ofc, it's what trolls do.

I genuinely can't remember why I put runny on ignore. Normally it is for mindless promotion of an unpleasant agenda. Occasionally it is for being an incomprehensible tit. I assume he's here to drag this thread into the pit. It won't work. However, rather than rise to his silliness it may be better to (you know what)

 

[The Clamp]

Will do


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Why are you acting like you used to? You stopped all this crap for ages. Now you’re back with a vengeance. Why did you bother coming on this thread? You have contributed nothing except weird, stalker posts and completely off topic waffle.
It’s not my place to tell you to go away but, go away.

My questions don’t need answering. I’m not giving you the binfest you are so clearly hankering after. Surprised you haven’t been chucked off the thread yet.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Anyone else looking forward to the (seemingly regular) bin fest on here about how we need an election as the country voted Boris in and not whoever succeeds him?

There are already a few comments on here and other places. Given the number of times recently there has been a change of PM without an election, it amazes me that there is anyone who doesn't understand that we do NOT vote for who becomes PM, but for what Party we want as our representative in Parliament.

Since 1900 there have been 28 changes of PM, of which only 11 were due to a General Election, 17 were due to change of leadership. so its usual for the PM to change without an election,

That's all true. It does feel like we SHOULD have more of a say though, no? Lot of power in the PM, he isn't just one MP leading a bunch of other MPs who are his equals. He has complete control over who is in his cabinet, and therefore control of policy.

I've just realised that in my 48 young years on this planet there hasn't been a single prime minister who has both risen to the top job by the ballot box, and been removed via the ballot box. Ted Heath 1970-74 was the last one. Since then only John Major has both won an election and lost an election.

That's quite a surprising state of affairs.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why are you acting like you used to? You stopped all this crap for ages. Now you’re back with a vengeance. Why did you bother coming on this thread? You have contributed nothing except weird, stalker posts and completely off topic waffle.
It’s not my place to tell you to go away but, go away.

My questions don’t need answering. I’m not giving you the binfest you are so clearly hankering after. Surprised you haven’t been chucked off the thread yet.

Or chuckled off it

(I have put him back on ignore; nobody wants to witness the fallout from a liquid lunch).

 

[schmunk]

Been chuckled out of the pub would be my guess.

For fairness, if we're counting manplay vs ballplay, that's Strike 1...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

For fairness, if we're counting manplay vs ballplay, that's Strike 1...

It's perfectly acceptable to use a feint and shoulder charge to fend off the unwelcome attentions of a careless tackler from behind

 

[Bry Nylon]

Usual rules on not boring the arse off the rest of us by using threads to conduct personal spats applies. So do it via PM if you really have too.

Cheers.