[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Bold Seagull]

Anyone else looking forward to the (seemingly regular) bin fest on here about how we need an election as the country voted Boris in and not whoever succeeds him?

There are already a few comments on here and other places. Given the number of times recently there has been a change of PM without an election, it amazes me that there is anyone who doesn't understand that we do NOT vote for who becomes PM, but for what Party we want as our representative in Parliament.

Since 1900 there have been 28 changes of PM, of which only 11 were due to a General Election, 17 were due to change of leadership. so its usual for the PM to change without an election,

There is always a context. Ill health, for the good of the country, good of their party, resignations have come for a variety of reasons in UK political history. It isn't often a PM is forced out in this way. Even Thatcher was allowed to fight her own leadership contest. This is something a bit different. There is a collapse of governance at this point. Mass resignations, then a resigned PM appointing a new cabinet - the very governance of the UK is at stake right now. Historically there hasn't been the need to oust a failing PM in quite the way this has happened, they've typically gone with Cabinets intact behind them.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Especially when the ‘man’ is a friend of the ref [emoji6]


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Strike 2......

 

[Shooting Star]

This, alongside the painful LBC clip of the bloke who just couldn't understand "parliamentary democracy" is everything that's wrong with our voters and campaigning today.

We even saw it at PMQ's yesterday, with Boris deflecting with statements about the people opposite "getting Corbyn in" instead of answering to his own mistakes.

You did not vote for Boris. You will not vote for Sir Kier. You will vote for a local MP who will represent you in parliament, you will choose them (hopefully) based equally on how you think they will represent you and your fellow constituents and what the policies of the party they represent are and, if you are lucky enough to get a good one (like Caroline Lucas who did an incredible job representing a friend who was a lifelong Tory in a battle over the suicide of his son), the latter will not prevent the former.

This ain't the good ole USA and we don't vote for Presidents. The fact that so many otherwise intelligent and reasonable people (much of the rest of your post is great) think so says a lot about where we are.

Oh I am well aware of that - around the time of the vote of no-confidence I lamented on this thread (or another on NSC) that our voting system doesn't allow me to vote separately for my local representative and leader of the country. I would agree though that much of the general populace might not quire realise this. But you and I both know that when people go to the ballot box, the vast majority have got the national leaders in mind, not the name on the ballot sheet. Thus I would imagine the "red wall" will return to voting in Labour candidates at the next election now Boris isn't leader.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why do I need to get over myself?

I am not saying BJ or the Conservatives have done a good job, I just think slagging off everything about him and everything he has done whilst giving zero credit for a single thing in unprecedented times smacks of being a bit blinkered.

Anyway I will **** off now and leave you to carry on dissing anything blue (except the Albion of course )

Look, of course nobody is relentless bad 24/7. Hence my comment about Mussolini. But if you think that is is uncharitable and leftists to not welcome positive comments about Johnson, you are not reading the room. Next you'll be lecturing us on the great promotion of British Pop music by Jonathan King and the money raised for chariddy by Jimmy Savile.

You have a soft spot for Johnson. I get it.

 

[BBassic]

Perhaps one for its own thread but hearing so many people (largely Tory MPs) saying we should remember the good Johnson did got me wondering: what exactly did he do?

Got Brexit done (debatable, and personally I'd put this down in the 'clusterf**k' column)
The vaccine rollout

And then I'm at a loss

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Perhaps one for its own thread but hearing so many people (largely Tory MPs) saying we should remember the good Johnson did got me wondering: what exactly did he do?

Got Brexit done (debatable, and personally I'd put this down in the 'clusterf**k' column)
The vaccine rollout

And then I'm at a loss

The vaccine rollout was despite Johnson, so my NHS colleagues tell me.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Oh I am well aware of that - around the time of the vote of no-confidence I lamented on this thread (or another on NSC) that our voting system doesn't allow me to vote separately for my local representative and leader of the country. I would agree though that much of the general populace might not quire realise this. But you and I both know that when people go to the ballot box, the vast majority have got the national leaders in mind, not the name on the ballot sheet. Thus I would imagine the "red wall" will return to voting in Labour candidates at the next election now Boris isn't leader.

We can thank our lucky stars that we don’t have that option.


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[BBassic]

The vaccine rollout was despite Johnson, so my NHS colleagues tell me.

Excellent.

Just Brexit then...

 

[Chicken Run]

Strike 2......

Get over yourself and give me a yellow card then if it makes you feel all big and powerful [emoji2357]


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[Deportivo Seagull]

The vaccine rollout was despite Johnson, so my NHS colleagues tell me.

I have also heard this from someone who was in a very senior role.


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[Guinness Boy]

Oh I am well aware of that - around the time of the vote of no-confidence I lamented on this thread (or another on NSC) that our voting system doesn't allow me to vote separately for my local representative and leader of the country. I would agree though that much of the general populace might not quire realise this. But you and I both know that when people go to the ballot box, the vast majority have got the national leaders in mind, not the name on the ballot sheet. Thus I would imagine the "red wall" will return to voting in Labour candidates at the next election now Boris isn't leader.

Boris will be part of it, but if they do then I suspect a realisation that Brexit is now done and Redcar hasn't magically morphed into the City of London and that, in fact, they're now choosing between a Gregg's Pasty and a heating bill will also have some impact.

 

[birthofanorange]

Get over yourself and give me a yellow card then if it makes you feel all big and powerful [emoji2357]


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With all due respect (and it ain't much, tbh), why did you come on this thread, today? Genuine question?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Excellent.

Just Brexit then...

Well, we have left the EU....but Northern Ireland isn't resolved so arguably Brexit isn't 'done' as such.

If I declare to the missus I'm going to build an extension, and crack on without planning permission, there is every chance I will be required to make substantial changes, changes I never promised, including a full demolotion. Anyone can promise to do something, unilaterally, without a thought for the process or the consequences.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

With all due respect (and it ain't much, tbh), why did you come on this thread, today? Genuine question?

Been chuckled out of the pub would be my guess.

 

[BBassic]

Well, we have left the EU....but Northern Ireland isn't resolved so arguably Brexit isn't 'done' as such.

If I declare to the missus I'm going to build an extension, and crack on without planning permission, there is every chance I will be required to make substantial changes, changes I never promised, including a full demolotion. Anyone can promise to do something, unilaterally, without a thought for the process or the consequences.

So, what we're saying is, of my initial list of two things Johnson has achieved...we're now down to zero things.

Not bad.

Not bad at all.

 

[clapham_gull]

How come a snap general election can be organised in 3 weeks,but a Tory Party leadership contest takes 3 months?

Canapés.

 

[nickbrighton]

I certainly won't be grizzling that the nation voted for president Johnson, not president Gove.

Because that's bullshit.

That isn't the reason that a general election may or may not be a good thing. Of course Starmer will call for a general election. Do you expect him to announce he thinks we are all home and hosed now Johnson is gone?

You will recall that the loudest recent voice calling for a general election when a PM stood down and was replaced from within was. . . . .Johnson! See his blather when Brown became PM. Someone poasted this on this thread aldeady so please try to keep up.

As for the 'seemingly regular binfest' that we 'need a general election', crikey, in your defence of the status quo is that all you've got?

you seem to have completely and utterly missed the point of my post. Im not defending anything. I wasnt saying a General election would be a good or bad thing, in fact I wasnt defending the status quo at all- I was simply pointing out that each time there is a PM Change due to a leadership change and not an Election, there are numerous posts saying we should have an election because we didnt vote for the new PM and that it was in fact far more common for there to be a new PM due to that than due to a General election. I made no comment about any politicians calling for an election, indeed my first sentence stated "bin fest on here" .

By all means rip my post apart for factual content if i have it wrong, or disagree with my opinion, but dont have ago at me for something my post did not allude to or contain-

 

[birthofanorange]

Been chuckled out of the pub would be my guess.

'Chuckled' is very apt.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Sums it up nicely

 

[peterward]

It’s no rumour. He has said that is what he intends to do. I imagine he may say that it’s a condition of his resignation. If he doesn’t get that I reckon he’ll force a VONC or call a snap election.


This may not be over.

The parliamentary VONC is clearly just political theatre and nothing but pure politicking. Anybody with half an ounce of intellect can see straight through it.

Obviously the Tories are not going to vote to bring down the Tory government as their crap failed leader is already about to walk, but Labour just want the soundbite that they've all just voted in favour of Johnsons lies and chaos, for Starmers next stage managed script'o'thon.

They know it wont pass, its all for pull string Keir's scripted narrative.

If only Labour had appointed the right brother, who knows where we'd be now!