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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
Trivial stuff... you can do better.
I agree that randomly starting a sentence with 'so' is poor practice; I just followed on the logic of our Brexiter poster, completing the statement for him....
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JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
The absolute state of this thread ... [MENTION=34242]Neville's Breakfast[/MENTION] must have the patience of a saint.
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Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 7,374
To develop a positive vision of Brexit does rather require one to believe that it wasn't always going to line the pockets of a very small number of rich people whilst making the rest of us significantly poorer and less free. If one party tells everyone in the country that they're going to get their own ice cream factory, it wouldn't seem unreasonable to expect the other parties to say that actually we won't, rather than telling the electorate that they had the best ice cream recipes.
Honestly? You really think that?
I do understand people voting Leave for some philosophical conviction.... but I have to call out your semantics chopping and the lies and deceit that brought us to this point. I do agree that it has been aired many times but the Brexit fallout continues to hurt the majority of people in this country and sadly that won't go away.....
Let's get rid of this mendacious government first and see what we can do to repair the domestic and global reputation of our governance.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
I don’t know about patience but I am always willing to listen to different views, politely expressed. I also have a lot of time on my hands !! Anyway, I will now step away from the internet and take the dog for a long walk. Enjoy your morning.
Kalimantan Gull
Well-known member
Enjoy!
highflyer
Well-known member
- Jan 21, 2016
- 2,553
You can disagree with hm of course, but I don't see any reason to hurl abuse on the basis of that statement
The first part is clearly true. Once Labour (against the instincts of a weakened leader) had taken a position that was clearly designed to reverse the referendum result, the only option for those that wanted that referendum honoured was to vote Tory. My view is that was a (predictable) strategic error by the anti-brexit faction in labour and the lib dems and an absolute gift to Johnson. Other views will vary. But it's a reasonable point to make.
As for the second point, you don't have to look further than this forum to see how clear is the division between those that wanted stricter resrictions and those that wanted fewer, or none. I'd disagree with the statement, but that doesn't mean that being somewhere in the middle and 'broadly supportive' of how the govenment handled the early stages makes you fair play for abuse.
Ultimately I doubt that anything done in the UK, eg closing borders etc before the point of lockdown, would have made little difference in reality as our place as a global 'hub' means that there were almost certainly multiple outbreaks across the country already spreading fast before there was much chance to do anything about it. So while I might disagree with how it was handled (and certainly disagree with the reasoning behind some actions, or lack of actions) I doubt the outcome would have a been much different whatever was done. Once the initial lockdown was in place, I do think they got some things right. And other things wrong, but even then hindsight helps...
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
A good starting point until you realise the other person is unwilling or incapable of accepting any other pov.
Enjoy your walk [emoji106]
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Loving how the journos are getting some blame for sitting on this shite.
Yet at no point are the government thinking 'dump it all out there and stop this 1000 cuts nonsense'.
Either they have no idea how much is still to come.
Or
They're protecting the really big stuff!
Yet at no point are the government thinking 'dump it all out there and stop this 1000 cuts nonsense'.
Either they have no idea how much is still to come.
Or
They're protecting the really big stuff!
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,267
The thing that worries me most now about Boris's lies and Partygate is the acceptance by significant numbers of the British people.
The reaction of many on phone-ins and social media is "I'm bored of the story", "I'm over it", "there are far more important things in the news we should be focusing on". It's like they are now tolerant of a serial liar in charge of the nation. Day by day, Boris is dragging the nation's standards down so that what people find acceptable in a leader is basically turning up for work and telling them what they want to hear.
It's like a parent - who had previously stuck to guidelines - caving in while their kids do what they want, when they want, all the time. In Britain we had political standards that were more rigorous than those of those countries, and that gave us some sort of stable democracy and framework for government and accountability. That seems to be going out the window. Once gone, it is hard to re-establish.
The reaction of many on phone-ins and social media is "I'm bored of the story", "I'm over it", "there are far more important things in the news we should be focusing on". It's like they are now tolerant of a serial liar in charge of the nation. Day by day, Boris is dragging the nation's standards down so that what people find acceptable in a leader is basically turning up for work and telling them what they want to hear.
It's like a parent - who had previously stuck to guidelines - caving in while their kids do what they want, when they want, all the time. In Britain we had political standards that were more rigorous than those of those countries, and that gave us some sort of stable democracy and framework for government and accountability. That seems to be going out the window. Once gone, it is hard to re-establish.
Its a truism, that somebody whose political inclinations are aligned with the bias of the print media, will not recognise the strength of that bias.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,877
I doubt very very much there are. He may have added the odd detail but he isn't the source of "leaks", he doesn't work in Government.
This is so true. People saying they don't care whether he was at a party or not are missing the point. He created some laws (not rules) that he then broke repeatedly and lied about to the House (which used to be a matter of resignation). That's not a good look in a democracy.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
It's probably quicker for Sue Gray to investigate which days there wasn't a party in Downing Street.
It seems they partied 24/7 during Lockdown.
It seems they partied 24/7 during Lockdown.
- Apr 19, 2018
- 2,135
The evidence says that they did, and that they won the argument despite losing the election. At the last election more people (56%) voted for parties offering the public either a final say on the Brexit deal (i.e. Brexit will happen but we can choose what sort of Brexit), or for parties offering another referendum. Despite statements to the contrary there has never been actual evidence of any majority support for the Tory/Boris version of Brexit in the same way there is actual evidence the majority didn't want it - not support from those who were Remainers, or from many UKIP-ers or other vote Leavers. I've said it elsewhere, I only know two people who publicly stated they voted Leave - one believed the messages we'd stay in the single market and is devastated by what happened, the other believed the messages we'd not lose our freedom of movement and he's similarly upset. That's two of millions who each had a different understanding of what it meant because the messages about what Brexit actually was were different from what happened, however much revisionism goes on, which is why a final say was important to so many, as shown by the votes at the election.
Only our archaic electoral system means the Tories got to deliver their version of Brexit which by any measure of popular support didn't win the argument at all - it substantially lost it. Winning an election in our system doesn't mean most of the country supports you - they clearly don't in this case, hence the anomaly that the majority didn't vote Tory, and similarly that Lib Dems got the same number of extra votes as the Tories while losing a seat as the Tories picked up dozens more. The most recent polls about Brexit have shown dissatisfaction amongst those who voted for Brexit and those who didn't - in years to come that the Tories didn't listen to the electorate which very clearly rejected the Tory version (going on number of votes - the purest measure we can use) will very much be their own stunning own goal. We'll rejoin the EU in all but name in the next three Parliaments I'm certain. It'll be called something else, not membership, and both sides will wrap it up as a success because it's politically expedient for both sides to do so, but to all intents and purposes we'll be back in to a greater extent than we're out.
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Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
So basically you voted for leave but had absolutely no understanding of what the ramifications could be. Unbelievable Jeff.
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Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
Sauce?
GrizzlingGammon
Well-known member
- Dec 15, 2018
- 1,996
They were all on the sauce. Keep up!