[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[A1X]

 

[chickens]

When you make life difficult and precarious for people, they choose not to add further complexity to their lives. Even more than the monthly struggle to ensure ends meet, what this government has done is take away people’s sense of security.

We are not going to see a significant uptick in the British birth rate while this sense of insecurity and precariousness persists.

Without a reduction in the frankly rampant rates of inequality and instability that this country is currently prey to, children are a choice that will be made very carefully by couples, and I do not blame for a second any couple who decides that the time is not right.

 

[Hotchilidog]

A very worrying conference, utterly backward and batsh*t. I'd joke about it, but the American version of modern religious extremist rightwing politics is now taking root in the Conservative Party and is something to be concerned about.

 

[Nobby]

A very worrying conference, utterly backward and batsh*t. I'd joke about it, but the American version of modern religious extremist rightwing politics is now taking root in the Conservative Party and is something to be concerned about.

Yep - scary Andy

 

[Pevenseagull]

Sue Ellen angling for a post election leadership bid based on more great grandchildren for Tory party members.

Cool.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

A very worrying conference, utterly backward and batsh*t. I'd joke about it, but the American version of modern religious extremist rightwing politics is now taking root in the Conservative Party and is something to be concerned about.

Yep, QAnon (UK) is not far off

 

[Gwylan]

The simple fact of the matter is that to replace the workers we need via immigration with natives would require far higher tax, as significant incentives would need to be offered to make having kids an attractive proposition. (At present it’s a struggle from a financial and time-juggling perspective)

Not only that, a higher population requires schools, doctors, and housing, not to mention supporting infrastructure.

Then, we wait eighteen years until the first ‘batch’ become work ready. Unless of course Suella is also in favour of child labour. My chimney does need a sweep…

There's an article on this in the Torygraph today. The readers' comments are, er, interesting. There are quite a few calls for euthanasia to be introduced to solve the ageing population issue - that would be a radical addition to the Tory manifesto

 

[aolstudios]

The problem with people born to mothers that didn't want them, is that they often end up in the care system, costing the state thousands and often coming out damaged and not very productive members of society.

Or at Eton

 

[Machiavelli]

When you make life difficult and precarious for people, they choose not to add further complexity to their lives. Even more than the monthly struggle to ensure ends meet, what this government has done is take away people’s sense of security.

We are not going to see a significant uptick in the British birth rate while this sense of insecurity and precariousness persists.

Without a reduction in the frankly rampant rates of inequality and instability that this country is currently prey to, children are a choice that will be made very carefully by couples, and I do not blame for a second any couple who decides that the time is not right.

Agreed. It's the lack of childcare and the impossibility/difficulty of getting secure housing that is delaying/preventing many from having children. Presumably those conditions have been caused by 'external factors', and it's nothing to do with the Conservatives and/or neoliberalism.

 

[BBassic]

There are quite a few calls for euthanasia to be introduced to solve the ageing population issue - that would be a radical addition to the Tory manifesto

Genius.

Euthanising the demographic that historically votes Tory isn't something you'd expect to hear from...ummm...Tories.

 

[beorhthelm]

There's an article on this in the Torygraph today. The readers' comments are, er, interesting. There are quite a few calls for euthanasia to be introduced to solve the ageing population issue - that would be a radical addition to the Tory manifesto

to be introduced or allowed? very different. issue that i dont think is bound by party politics.

 

[nicko31]

A very worrying conference, utterly backward and batsh*t. I'd joke about it, but the American version of modern religious extremist rightwing politics is now taking root in the Conservative Party and is something to be concerned about.

It does seems like we have a choice.

a) Tories in government = bad for the country, under Sunak a bit nasty

b) Tories in opposition = US Republicans lite, ie Braverman type show

The question is would b) keep them out of power for foreseeable and force them to change course?

 

[beorhthelm]

Agreed. It's the lack of childcare and the impossibility/difficulty of getting secure housing that is delaying/preventing many from having children. Presumably those conditions have been caused by 'external factors', and it's nothing to do with the Conservatives and/or neoliberalism.

or, is it more women going into and staying in careers? they dont want children or as many? also looking at birth rate trends across europe, we are not an outlier.

 

[Peteinblack]

Melanie Philips - who now refers to our capital city as Londonistan - an ex-Guardian journalist and feminist who now describes herself as "a liberal who got mugged by reality".

See also: Julie Burchill; Tony Parsons.

 

[Peteinblack]

Tories seem to be torn between advocating Euthanasia or

 

[chickens]

or, is it more women going into and staying in careers? they dont want children or as many? also looking at birth rate trends across europe, we are not an outlier.

While I think women in work is a factor, it would be eminently undesirable to try to roll us back to a 1950s style society. I personally favour a society where couples can choose between them how to divvy up childcare responsibilities, and how much to rely on professional childcare providers.

At present, I’d say raising children is eminently rewarding, but genuinely tough. If we want a higher birthrate then we need to be making parenting a more attractive prospect with a mixture of lessening the financial and time-pressure burdens that young families have.

When you create an economy that requires two full time salaries just to break even, you actively discourage population increases.

Amazingly the Conservative Party will somehow be blind to all this, and settle on any solution that doesn’t involve public spending. Looking at the US, this will probably take the form of an attack on women’s reproductive rights, which is repellent to say the least.

 

[Machiavelli]

or, is it more women going into and staying in careers? they dont want children or as many? also looking at birth rate trends across europe, we are not an outlier.

That's to miss the point (and as to why you've missed it, we can only speculate): Europe has been subjected to both neoliberalism and conservative governments over the past c40 years. I do concede that the fall-out from Brexit has made the last 4 Conservative Governments particularly dire iterations of that particular genre -- but that's what happens when you're left with a zombie ideology and a (quite literally) zombie party.

 

[Machiavelli]

While I think women in work is a factor, it would be eminently undesirable to try to roll us back to a 1950s style society. I personally favour a society where couples can choose between them how to divvy up childcare responsibilities, and how much to rely on professional childcare providers.

At present, I’d say raising children is eminently rewarding, but genuinely tough. If we want a higher birthrate then we need to be making parenting a more attractive prospect with a mixture of lessening the financial and time-pressure burdens that young families have.

When you create an economy that requires two full time salaries just to break even, you actively discourage population increases.

Amazingly the Conservative Party will somehow be blind to all this, and settle on any solution that doesn’t involve public spending. Looking at the US, this will probably take the form of an attack on women’s reproductive rights, which is repellent to say the least.

Agreed, but to add, although the (global) birth rate is falling, it's still growing. There is (now) the additional factor of how that plays out in terms of resource use and its effects.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Genius.

Euthanising the demographic that historically votes Tory isn't something you'd expect to hear from...ummm...Tories.

They are not called 'The stupid party' for nothing!

 

[Gwylan]

Genius.

Euthanising the demographic that historically votes Tory isn't something you'd expect to hear from...ummm...Tories.

Well, TBF, there were some reader comments, not official Tory policy. But you never know what's around the corner

(there was also a reader comment calling for a culling of all dogs - except labradors - that would cause a riot in most Tory households)