[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Baldseagull]

Indeed, the idea that any migrant travelling across numerous safe European countries to reach the UK or people trafficking gangs, would be deterred by a tiny chance of being returned via the Dublin agreement is laughable. Even.more amusing, In 2018
there were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. There were 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation.

Unfortunately some people are obsessed with blaming the Tories and/or Brexit for absolutely everything ...

The Dublin agreement gives weight to an asylum seeker in the EU having that application go to a country where they have family connections, it also makes it clear that an asylum claimant cannot apply in multiple EU states. So yes, whilst we were in the agreement, it allowed some applicants to be sent here under the family ties rule, but now we are out of the agreement, it means that anyone that has a failed claim elsewhere in the EU, can apply in the UK if they can get here, and we must now process that claim.
Unfortunately, some people, like that Johnny Crumplin Football Genius bloke that used to post on here, are too dense to understand this sort of reasoning. Like thinking that because we were financially a net contributor to the EU, coming out would make us richer, without factoring in all the other indirect economic benefits.

 

[Baldseagull]

yeah thats fair point. though wonder if they fail there what likelihood they have success here.

A higher percentage of claims are successful here than in France, I don't know the reasons for this. Maybe we have criteria easier to meet, or maybe applicants that are risking their lives to get here are generally more likely to be genuine, because you are not going to risk your life if you think it likely you will fail in the application.

 

[Audax]

that seems at odds with the narrative the migrant comes to UK because family/language/cultural links. now its because they've been told the relative merits of each countries asylum process. does this mean the policies to deport to 3rd countries, make their claim automatically fail are valid and will work, because the smugglers will pass on this information? i dont think so, but thats the inference.

Not at odds at all. Both can be true at the same time. Refugee with ties in UK starts trying to work out how to get here, is introduced to smugglers, who then sell the boats route.

Remember here that those coming on the boats have been unable to get here via other means, mostly due to not having documentation that UK border staff would accept. Hence the people smugglers coming into play.

 

[AlbionBro]

"wasn't very smart ?"

He's a multi millionaire, very few sports people break through into media and as as successful (and talented) as him.

The reality is, is that if he did happen to lose the MOTD day job, he'd be instantly employed by another broadcaster on a greatly increased wage.

I think he is a Clarkson type of character, loves the attention and is building his profile, many won't like this and apparently the BBC has been flooded with emails calling for him to step aside.
It was always going to go this way. Some inside the BBC say he is damaging our impartial brand, whether he has a contract or not the public don't like it.
This will rumble on, I think perhaps he should say sorry and be back in by Saturday and it can all calm down.
Personally I am not bothered I would prefer to hear more about Keir as he is getting lost, I fear he is not making the headway we'd like at the moment.

 

[nicko31]

Yes, sidelining Attenborough. He's only been with them for ... what is it ... seven decades. And now he's deemed too dangerous for the British public.

A new low, the bloke for me is one of the greatest Britons that has ever lived

 

[DataPoint]

Hi, history MA with a specialism in Twentieth Century Europe here. Do you seriously think the Germans went from 0 to 100 overnight on this issue? Because if not, your post makes no sense. Literally nobody has claimed the Government is executing a holocaust. What they’re saying is the demonising and “othering” not just of refugees but of all sorts of targets has echoes of the early stages of the process that led to a very dark place.

Which it does. Take it from a historian.

Thanks for the offer - but I'd rather take it from the reality of countless film clips of the 1930's - why don't you - the holocaust came later in the 1940's? We're not stupid -Lineker's inference was that the goverment where acting like the Nazis - and morons are cheering him for that distortion.

 

[Gwylan]

In 50 years time there's only going to be one question asked:-

"What the f**k was wrong with you people?"

In these dark times

They won’t say: when the walnut tree shook in the wind

But: when the house-painter crushed the workers.

They won’t say: when the child skimmed a flat stone

across the rapids

But: when the great wars were being prepared for.

They won’t say: when the woman came into the room

But: when the great powers joined forces against the

workers.

However, they won’t say: the times were dark

Rather: why were their poets silent?
(Bertolt Brecht)

 

[BadFish]

That is f***ing frightening.

If I were there there is no way I would be watching it.

In the name of all that is reasonable, in the name of free speech, in the name of standing with someone who expressed his opinion. I would not watch.

A step too far and a step closer to 1930 Germany.

Seriously, from the outside looking in and taking into account my biases and the fact that I have been listening to way too much James O Brien recently. Please reassure me that the UK is actually as f***ed up as it appears to be?

 

[BadFish]

I have scoffed and laughed at those screaming cancel culture at every turn and here it is playing out before our eyes.

Where are they all in this instance?

 

[BadFish]

Indeed, the idea that any migrant travelling across numerous safe European countries to reach the UK or people trafficking gangs, would be deterred by a tiny chance of being returned via the Dublin agreement is laughable. Even.more amusing, In 2018
there were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. There were 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation.

Unfortunately some people are obsessed with blaming the Tories and/or Brexit for absolutely everything ...

The Tories have been in power for 13 years! Who do you blame?

 

[A1X]

Thanks for the offer - but I'd rather take it from the reality of countless film clips of the 1930's - why don't you - the holocaust came later in the 1940's? We're not stupid -Lineker's inference was that the goverment where acting like the Nazis - and morons are cheering him for that distortion.

You do realise basically every film clip of the 1930s which has survived is pro-Nazi propaganda, right?

I based my thesis on primary resources. I think you’ll find that trumps whatever shite you found on YouTube.

The holocaust as we would know it started in about 1936/37 with the enforced sterilisation of the disabled, with executions starting in 1937 at Sachsenhausen and Buchenwald.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The Tories have been in power for 13 years! Who do you blame?

His response will be:

Jeremy ****ing Corbyn.

 

[dsr-burnley]

and why is that, pray tell? Why not provide an answer WITH EVIDENCE if you have it.... or admit you are just speculating.

I think it's a reasonable speculation. Why do people get on a small boat in France to come to England? I stand by my belief that it's because they want to leave France and come to England. I don't think that's controversial.

 

[Hugo Rune]

edit: Inappropriate image of a Tory.

 

[Nobby]

Thanks for the offer - but I'd rather take it from the reality of countless film clips of the 1930's - why don't you - the holocaust came later in the 1940's? We're not stupid -Lineker's inference was that the goverment where acting like the Nazis - and morons are cheering him for that distortion.

Dear oh dear
Keep up at the back
Maybe try reading some serious history books.
Which 30’s films have you watched? Genuinely interested

 

[Nobby]

You do realise basically every film clip of the 1930s which has survived is pro-Nazi propaganda, right?

I based my thesis on primary resources. I think you’ll find that trumps whatever shite you found on YouTube.

The holocaust as we would know it started in about 1936/37 with the enforced sterilisation of the disabled, with executions starting in 1937 at Sachsenhausen and Buchenwald.

What we learn from history, is that it was people not realising what was happening in front of their very eyes, who contributed to the rise of Nazism. People who were told what to think and who accepted it blindly. People who didn’t look below the headlines of a subservient press. People who became brainwashed and brain dead to the realities happening around them.

Until it was too late.

There seem to be quite a lot of those people on this thread unfortunately…..

 

[Pevenseagull]

What we learn from history, is that it was people not realising what was happening in front of their very eyes, who contributed to the rise of Nazism. People who were told what to think and who accepted it blindly. People who didn’t look below the headlines of a subservient press. People who became brainwashed and brain dead to the realities happening around them.

Until it was too late.

There seem to be quite a lot of those people on this thread unfortunately…..

You lost me at 'what we learn from history...'

 

[Lever]

I think it's a reasonable speculation. Why do people get on a small boat in France to come to England? I stand by my belief that it's because they want to leave France and come to England. I don't think that's controversial.

You have beliefs, now where is your evidence for those beliefs? Your unconvincing rhetorical question comes straight out of the Daily Mail playbook......

 

[Lever]

First Attenborough, then Lineker, this clever distraction and erosion of rights is working for the far right agenda that cannot tolerate free speech....

 

[carlzeiss]

It is a bit like the 1930's in Germany though , expect instead of sending people of to be executed we book them into hotels . Maybe we will invade Poland next and march on to Moscow , who knows what Rishi has planned next . seemed like a nice chap when he first appeared on our TV screen .