[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Thunder Bolt]

It depends on the source when it comes to numbers as naturally it’s impossible to know, since there are huge numbers of undocumented people in the UK. Without documents and census it’s largely guesstimates from everyone right down to the government.

It’s absolutely the government’s fault. Lack of resources and funding, gross negligence and now a very likely illegal policy being forced through to seem tough, when they’ve played a huge part in causing this mess.

That said, I don’t think it’s even up for debate that illegal immigrants come with a cost. Direct costs (processing/asylum hotels/feeding and watering/security and policing/transportation/healthcare) as well as indirect costs like loss of tax revenue from being undeclared workers, use of tax and NI-paid facilities/services/benefits which haven’t been paid for.

These are rightly absorbed by the tax payer for genuine asylum seekers, in order to allow them to transition to British life, learn the language, gain employment and start giving back in taxes what has been spent on them.

The quantity and speed of this process along with government incompetence has made this an issue which does need addressing though, even if it gets people a little squeamish on both sides of the political divide.

How do you know there are huge numbers of undocumented people in the country? If they are undocumented, then how do you count them? They can’t access health care or benefits because they’re undocumented.

People arriving in the boats claim asylum when they arrive, so are documented from that point onwards. They are counted, because the press report their numbers.

Nobody is denying there are illegal immigrants in this country, but usually it’s those who overstay their visas, or sneak in without claiming asylum.
Don’t confuse the two.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It depends on the source when it comes to numbers as naturally it’s impossible to know, since there are huge numbers of undocumented people in the UK. Without documents and census it’s largely guesstimates from everyone right down to the government.

It’s absolutely the government’s fault. Lack of resources and funding, gross negligence and now a very likely illegal policy being forced through to seem tough, when they’ve played a huge part in causing this mess.

That said, I don’t think it’s even up for debate that illegal immigrants come with a cost. Direct costs (processing/asylum hotels/feeding and watering/security and policing/transportation/healthcare) as well as indirect costs like loss of tax revenue from being undeclared workers, use of tax and NI-paid facilities/services/benefits which haven’t been paid for.

These are rightly absorbed by the tax payer for genuine asylum seekers, in order to allow them to transition to British life, learn the language, gain employment and start giving back in taxes what has been spent on them.

The quantity and speed of this process along with government incompetence has made this an issue which does need addressing though, even if it gets people a little squeamish on both sides of the political divide.

Tories don't want to spend any money on dealing with immigration (by whatever route) because they fear that if they increase public spending on dealing with 'foringers' this will alienate their white-van-man and Mumsnet-femail bedrock support. This is a bizarre fact. Because by not spending what is needed to make things better....they just get worse. Fancy that?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

How do you know there are huge numbers of undocumented people in the country? If they are undocumented, then how do you count them? They can’t access health care or benefits because they’re undocumented.

People arriving in the boats claim asylum when they arrive, so are documented from that point onwards. They are counted, because the press report their numbers.

Nobody is denying there are illegal immigrants in this country, but usually it’s those who overstay their visas, or sneak in without claiming asylum.
Don’t confuse the two.

I would conceded that the Albanian gang racket is probably (though not certainly) an additional (and recent) factor. Whether the Albanian bogey man is real or not, it is entirely the product of dismal, footling, incompetent tory policy. They must be voted out. It is our civic duty to ensure this happens

 

[BadFish]

I am sure that we can all agree on the fact that the Conservatives have had 13 years of claiming to be dealing with this situation without making any improvements for anyone.

They make a lot of noise about being the party to deal with immigration and asylum seekers but the square root of all their efforts is f*** all.

It is an issue that serves they well in terms of getting votes. One has to wonder if they really have the motivation to put in place workable solutions or would rather pander to the masses with harsh systems that work for no-one.

The similarities between this speech and plan and Pritti Patel's from years ago are so similar, surely alarm bells are ringing.

After 13 years they are either incapable of making the system work or they don't want. Why anyone is willing to give them another try is beyond me.

 

[nicko31]

I am sure that we can all agree on the fact that the Conservatives have had 13 years of claiming to be dealing with this situation without making any improvements for anyone.

They make a lot of noise about being the party to deal with immigration and asylum seekers but the square root of all their efforts is f*** all.

It is an issue that serves they well in terms of getting votes. One has to wonder if they really have the motivation to put in place workable solutions or would rather pander to the masses with harsh systems that work for no-one.

The similarities between this speech and plan and Pritti Patel's from years ago are so similar, surely alarm bells are ringing.

After 13 years they are either incapable of making the system work or they don't want. Why anyone is willing to give them another try is beyond me.

They have 80% of the media on their side, they have infiltrated the BBC and with Voter ID have also compromised the voting system in their favour.

At this time Labour look likely to form the next election but its by no means a given. In the meantime we're fast sliding towards a non-EU version of Orban's Hungary.

They are not finished the judiciary next, then go after Ofcom...

 

[Randy McNob]

We're led to believe Lineker's comments are 'out of step' with public opinon and the so called 'will of the British people' support the governments actions

lineker has 8.7m followers on Twitter
Nigel Farage 1.7m

 

[nicko31]

We're led to believe Lineker's comments are 'out of step' with public opinon and the so called 'will of the British people' support the governments actions

lineker has 8.7m followers on Twitter
Nigel Farage 1.7m

That what worries them and has more reach than an PM past or present.

There is talk of the Beeb sacking GL, he's not friggin Nick Robinson and his comments were on his own twitter. He doesn't exclusively work for the Beeb FFS

 

[Hugo Rune]

That what worries them and has more reach than an PM past or present.

There is talk of the Beeb sacking GL, he's not friggin Nick Robinson and his comments were on his own twitter. He doesn't exclusively work for the Beeb FFS

Jake Humphrey has been at is too:

Gary Lineker: Why his comments present a problem for the BBC

How the presenter's remarks, comparing UK asylum policy to 1930s Germany, place the BBC in a pickle.

www.bbc.co.uk

This bit of the article interested me:

“The director general, Tim Davie, has made impartiality a key platform of his leadership……Davie has previously said: "If you want to be an opinionated columnist or a partisan campaigner on social media then that is a valid choice, but you should not be working at the BBC."

Perhaps he should be thinking about this view:

"If you’ve stood to become a partisan Conservative councillor and been the deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990’s; that is a valid career path. But you should not, at a later date, try to be seen as impartial working as the Director General at the BBC."

Let’s not forget how he got the job, the BBC we’re picking on poor Tories:

“Davie took over as acting Director-General on 11 November 2012 following the resignation of George Entwistle in the wake of the Newsnight broadcast which did not name any individual but which led to Internet speculation which incorrectly identified Conservative Lord McAlpine in the North Wales child abuse case.” Wiki

 

[nicko31]

Jake Humphrey has been at is too:

Gary Lineker: Why his comments present a problem for the BBC

How the presenter's remarks, comparing UK asylum policy to 1930s Germany, place the BBC in a pickle.

www.bbc.co.uk

This bit of the article interested me:

“The director general, Tim Davie, has made impartiality a key platform of his leadership……Davie has previously said: "If you want to be an opinionated columnist or a partisan campaigner on social media then that is a valid choice, but you should not be working at the BBC."

Perhaps he should be thinking about this view:

"If you’ve stood to become a partisan Conservative councillor and been the deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990’s; that is a valid career path. But you should not, at a later date, try to be seen as impartial working as the Director General at the BBC."

Let’s not forget how he got the job, the BBC we’re picking on poor Tories:

“Davie took over as acting Director-General on 11 November 2012 following the resignation of George Entwistle in the wake of the Newsnight broadcast which did not name any individual but which led to Internet speculation which incorrectly identified Conservative Lord McAlpine in the North Wales child abuse case.” Wiki

Quite...

And lets not even talk about the "current" BBC Chairman that arranged an £800k loan for the former disgraced PM but one because he personal life was so chaotic he couldn't keep this personal finances in order

 

[The Clamp]

The government might think they are fooling the British people. They forget though, the world is watching. A world that we rely on, increasingly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They have 80% of the media on their side, they have infiltrated the BBC and with Voter ID have also compromised the voting system in their favour.

At this time Labour look likely to form the next election but its by no means a given. In the meantime we're fast sliding towards a non-EU version of Orban's Hungary.

They are not finished the judiciary next, then go after Ofcom...

They’ve already tried Ofcom by trying to install Paul Dacre.

 

[worthingseagull123]

I am sure that we can all agree on the fact that the Conservatives have had 13 years of claiming to be dealing with this situation without making any improvements for anyone.

They make a lot of noise about being the party to deal with immigration and asylum seekers but the square root of all their efforts is f*** all.

It is an issue that serves they well in terms of getting votes. One has to wonder if they really have the motivation to put in place workable solutions or would rather pander to the masses with harsh systems that work for no-one.

The similarities between this speech and plan and Pritti Patel's from years ago are so similar, surely alarm bells are ringing.

After 13 years they are either incapable of making the system work or they don't want. Why anyone is willing to give them another try is beyond me.

We’ve had 13 years of cuts to Immigration Services and state provisions.

We are living with the consequences.

 

[nicko31]

The government might think they are fooling the British people. They forget though, the world is watching. A world that we rely on, increasingly.

But I really don't think they care if the net result is self harm to the UK, their only concern is popularity and holding onto power. If joining Russia and Belarus in the cold outside the ECHR resulted in a them winning the red wall voters over they wouldn't give a toss.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But I really don't think they care if the net result is self harm to the UK, their only concern is popularity and holding onto power.

True, and making millions doing it. Power, greed and money are their motivations.

 

[Austrian Gull]

The whole stop the boats masquerade is a desperate attempt to cling onto the red wall seats.

Time will tell if the public are gullible enough to believe this horse manure....

 

[dsr-burnley]

Every sane person (who isn't a blighted by their tiny white penis) ...

Is it permissible on this board to abuse people on the basis of their skin colour or their gender?

 

[BBassic]

Is it permissible on this board to abuse people on the basis of their skin colour or their gender?

Of course not, this isn't Burnley

 

[dsr-burnley]

Of course not, this isn't Burnley

Politics is banned on Burnley's forum. Too much intolerance, and in more than one direction.

 

[Eric the meek]

A far-right politician describes Sunak's plan as 'harsh but fair'.

'Italy’s far-right deputy PM praises Rishi Sunak’s ‘harsh but fair’ small boats plan – UK politics live'

'https://www.theguardian.com/politic...tion-pledges-conservatives-uk-politics-latest'

 

[Mellotron]

Politics is banned on Burnley's forum. Too much intolerance, and in more than one direction.

Imagine being intolerant of racism. Disgusting.