[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's perfectly fair and it's not weighted. It just means that a Brexit party supporter can vote for them free of worry that he might be splitting the right wing vote and allowing a libdem to win the seat. If brexit wins, great for him, but if they get a low vote share then his vote is switched to the Tories, if he chooses thus.

Ditto for Green Party supporters, a vast number of which Im sure don't vote Green because they don't believe they can win. This way you can vote Green in the knowledge that your vote will still eventually be counted for one of the parties that eventually come first and second.

Or in NI, if you're a unionist you can vote for either the DUP or UUP, putting the other second, relieved that you won't be splitting the unionist vote and allowing Sinn Fein to get a seat with less than 50%.

In the last election I didn't vote for my preferred party because I wanted to give the best chance of beating the Tory. That's not healthy democracy, and has the added problem of not allowing the smaller parties to strengthen for the future.

You get the picture.

Yes, I'm beginning to understand now....that;'s is very nicely explained. Thank you That's called 'preferential voting' is it?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm not sure it would necessarily benefit Labour, or any other party outright, certainly not in the medium to long term. Politics, GEs and how people vote would change, IMO everyone would benefit.

As noted above, yes, I'm beginning to like the idea of this....

 

[Lever]

As noted above, yes, I'm beginning to like the idea of this....

You might find this report helpful!

https://citizen-network.org/library/global-ranking-of-electoral-systems.html

 

[Ethelwulf]

This government and Johnson are shameless. Today they have said they will not lower fuel duty or vat on fuel as they need the money to pay the £400 energy grants . The rich get richer like the chancellor and his wife and all the bloody tory members of parliament that have shares in BP and Shell etc.
When is the working class going to rise up and remove these ******** from office. Democracy is a con

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You might find this report helpful!

https://citizen-network.org/library/global-ranking-of-electoral-systems.html

Thanks. I'm drawn the the AV system, with a proviso that when a registered elector does not vote this is registered as a vote for no representative, and the no rep 'candidate' is processed in the same way as the others. This would men that the constituency would put forward no MP only if fewer than 50% of registered voters vote (better than the penal Aussie system if forcing people to vote). I guess you could make your second preference 'no candidate' which would be interesting....if you set this up so that 'no candidate' cannot win unless the turnout is lower than 50%, this would allow voters to concetrate on one candidate if the wish, and avoud electing Corbyn by accident as everone's second favourite lovable old rogue. If you see what I mean.

Also, lower vote age to 16, and require voters pass a fitness test (like the citizenship test, including basic English and an understanding of human rights and basic British habits and customs) to be granted the right to vote.

We then need to set up a smart system that will allow people to vote via their phone - by video call for those vulnerable to electoral fraud so they can speak the name of their choice in a recorded exchange. That said, electoral fraud appeared to be an issue primarily among some communities with 'elders', proxy voting, and swathes of elderly voters who speak no English. Under my system they wouldn't get a vote because they wouldn't qualify.

Right - what's the next problem to solve?

 

[Lever]

There seems to be a consensus about Johnson here.....

https://www.quora.com/What-is-Boris-Johnson-like-in-real-life

 

[The Clamp]

This government and Johnson are shameless. Today they have said they will not lower fuel duty or vat on fuel as they need the money to pay the £400 energy grants . The rich get richer like the chancellor and his wife and all the bloody tory members of parliament that have shares in BP and Shell etc.
When is the working class going to rise up and remove these ******** from office. Democracy is a con

We do not have a democracy right now. Or rather we do not have a democratic government in power.
If one steals their way to power on lies while professing to be in favour of democracy, that is not democratic. For democracy to work, the electorate needs to be in possession of the facts.

Democracy isn’t something we can establish and then leave be. Democracy needs to be constantly upheld, challenged and exercised. If not then we get pseudo-tyrants like Johnson using it to their advantage. Democracy can all too easily be fashioned into a weapon of tyranny. It’s a very effective disguise.

Plus, our democracy was never designed to deal with something as corrupt as this government. The mechanics just aren’t there to remove them. And they do need to be removed. Immediately.

 

[nicko31]

We do not have a democracy right now. Or rather we do not have a democratic government in power.
If one steals their way to power on lies while professing to be in favour of democracy, that is not democratic. For democracy to work, the electorate needs to be in possession of the facts.

Democracy isn’t something we can establish and then leave be. Democracy needs to be constantly upheld, challenged and exercised. If not then we get pseudo-tyrants like Johnson using it to their advantage. Democracy can all too easily be fashioned into a weapon of tyranny. It’s a very effective disguise.

Plus, our democracy was never designed to deal with something as corrupt as this government. The mechanics just aren’t there to remove them. And they do need to be removed. Immediately.

Our system makes an assumption those who serve are honest and of decent character. Then one of the biggest chancers in history arrived. Can we still operate in future without a written down constitution?

 

[nicko31]

Meanwhile government incompetence coming home to roost. We deserve better...

 

[Is it PotG?]

Meanwhile government incompetence coming home to roost. We deserve better...

Is that via FptP or PR?

 

[The Clamp]

Meanwhile government incompetence coming home to roost. We deserve better...

View attachment 148707

The problem with Partygate was It drew people’s attention away from the fact that as well as being elitist liars who don’t think the law applies to them* they are also completely incapable of managing the economy.


*and they are laws. They are not “rules”. Rules are for golf clubs and boardgames. They did not break the rules. The broke the law.

 

[nicko31]

The problem with Partygate was It drew people’s attention away from the fact that as well as being elitist liars who don’t think the law applies to them* they are also completely incapable of managing the economy.


*and they are laws. They are not “rules”. Rules are for golf clubs and boardgames. They did not break the rules. The broke the law.

In the past they were nasty but the economy performed OK, now they're nasty and actually crap with it

Still....pounds and ounces, blue passport these are the things that really matter

 

[pb21]

Meanwhile government incompetence coming home to roost. We deserve better...

View attachment 148707

World leading (low) projected growth.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Is that via FptP or PR?

It appears to be complete incompetence supported by idiots, whichever voting system is used

 

[darkwolf666]

Thanks. I'm drawn the the AV system, with a proviso that when a registered elector does not vote this is registered as a vote for no representative, and the no rep 'candidate' is processed in the same way as the others. This would men that the constituency would put forward no MP only if fewer than 50% of registered voters vote (better than the penal Aussie system if forcing people to vote). I guess you could make your second preference 'no candidate' which would be interesting....if you set this up so that 'no candidate' cannot win unless the turnout is lower than 50%, this would allow voters to concetrate on one candidate if the wish, and avoud electing Corbyn by accident as everone's second favourite lovable old rogue. If you see what I mean.

Also, lower vote age to 16, and require voters pass a fitness test (like the citizenship test, including basic English and an understanding of human rights and basic British habits and customs) to be granted the right to vote.

We then need to set up a smart system that will allow people to vote via their phone - by video call for those vulnerable to electoral fraud so they can speak the name of their choice in a recorded exchange. That said, electoral fraud appeared to be an issue primarily among some communities with 'elders', proxy voting, and swathes of elderly voters who speak no English. Under my system they wouldn't get a vote because they wouldn't qualify.

Right - what's the next problem to solve?

We had a referendum on AV in 2011, which was rejected by the voting populus.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Oops, you are in a word loop now....

Take a rest.....

You'll be able to think and express yourself more clearly after a break.....

Did I **ag your missus once?
I clearly done something to make you follow me around throwing casual insults towards me.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We had a referendum on AV in 2011, which was rejected by the voting populus.

Did we? I wasn't paying attention

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We had a referendum on AV in 2011, which was rejected by the voting populus.

It was a ridiculous and confusing proposal quite possibly designed to fail. Let’s just have normal proportional representation which normal countries have.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Speaking of The AV Referendum, someone in The Daily Telegraph called Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson said this of it in 2011:

"When a regime has been in power too long, when it has fatally exhausted the patience of the people, and when oblivion finally beckons – I am afraid that across the world you can rely on the leaders of that regime to act solely in the interests of self-preservation, and not in the interests of the electorate."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/av-last-gasp-gordon-browns-bunker-gigantic-fraud/

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It was a ridiculous and confusing proposal quite possibly designed to fail. Let’s just have normal proportional representation which normal countries have.

Tell me more. I knew nothing about this.....could that be indicative of the problem?