[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Bodian]

Because possibly they carried on drinking and it appears the PM was there for ten minutes. That's not a party defence, just reports from people who were there and have told the press that fines took place.

The PM (if accounts are true) instigated the drinks and the official photographer took photos.

It's a complete mess.

Wasn't it an offence to have organised a party/event though? He starts the party off, then leaves - so gets away with it again!

 

[The Clamp]

I do hope nobody is suggesting that the Met investigation wasn't an incompetent stitch-up to protect Big Dog.

It was always going to be that way.

Johnson lies
Dick is incompetent
The Met is institutionally corrupt

Sue Gray? Well, she has covered up for the government before so I wont be holding my breath

This. There has been a hugely successful push to make out Sue Gray is the very last word in integrity.

But who has been saying this? Mainly Johnson and his cronies.

When in fact she has covered up for the Tory's before, she has allegedly given instruction to MP's and other civil servants on how to make emails disappear forever and something that seems to be continually ignored..... Boris Johnson is her boss.

You may as well get Boris Johnson to do the enquiry. Which I suspect for all intents and purpose, he has.

 

[clapham_gull]

I do hope nobody is suggesting that the Met investigation wasn't an incompetent stitch-up to protect Big Dog.

It was always going to be that way.

Johnson lies
Dick is incompetent
The Met is institutionally corrupt

Sue Gray? Well, she has covered up for the government before so I wont be holding my breath

In this instance I don't think the MET have been involved in cover up. They've simply been dragged into a situation they clearly don't to be in and under their absolute appalling leadership have come out of it looking worse than when they came in.

That's the MET for you all over.

I'm not sure they are capable of engineering a cover-up.

 

[clapham_gull]

[tweet]1528851888824889344[/tweet]

 

[The Clamp]

In this instance I don't think the MET have been involved in cover up. They've simply been dragged into a situation they clearly don't to be in and under their absolute appalling leadership have come out of it looking worse than when they came in.

That's the MET for you all over.

I'm not sure they are capable of engineering a cover-up.

I think what has happened is that the Met has handed out the questionnaires, the Tory's have got together and decided that the Junior staff will cop to everything and the senior MP's will admit to a token couple of indiscretions. They have all filled their forms out knowing exactly what they are all admitting to and exactly what the outcome will be.

Now, because the method of investigation by the Met was fundamentally useless, the only tactic they seem to have employed is to ask the accused "did you break the law"? and then taken their answer at face value.

That seems to be the sum total effort of their investigation. That's where the Met are culpable and actively complicit in a cover-up. When someone in the Met decided that was going to be the method of "investigation", they would have been acutely aware that any outcome would be entirely dependent on who was willing to 'fess up.

It's ludicrous to believe the Met thought that their chosen method of investigation could garner, by any measure, reliable results . They basically stepped aside and let Johnson choose the outcome of their investigation. And the Met are entirely culpable because they chose to do this.

 

[clapham_gull]

I think what has happened is that the Met has handed out the questionnaires, the Tory's have got together and decided that the Junior staff will cop to everything and the senior MP's will admit to a token couple of indiscretions. They have all filled their forms out knowing exactly what they are all admitting to and exactly what the outcome will be.

Now, because the method of investigation by the Met was fundamentally useless, the only tactic they seem to have employed is to ask the accused "did you break the law"? and then taken their answer at face value.

That seems to be the sum total effort of their investigation. That's where the Met are culpable and actively complicit in a cover-up. When someone in the Met decided that was going to be the method of "investigation", they would have been acutely aware that any outcome would be entirely dependent on who was willing to 'fess up.

It's ludicrous to believe the Met thought that their chosen method of investigation could garner, by any measure, reliable results . They basically stepped aside and let Johnson choose the outcome of their investigation. And the Met are entirely culpable because they chose to do this.

Completely, but the MET over the years and moved on from clusterf### to clusterf###.

It's not about protecting the Government in charge, it's about protecting themselves from the Government in charge.

They don't want to dragged into politics and in doing so have dragged themselves into politics. With sensible and effective leadership the disaster of the Clapham Common protests didn't need to happen.

In trying to stop a situation they created one and that's the MET leadership all over.

They *could* have nipped this in the bud at the time, but chose not to. I can't believe for one second the goings on at number 10 weren't being discussed at the highest levels.

One of the weirdest initiatives I'm seen recently is the "shadowing" of the British Transport Police by the military police at London Rail Stations.

I'm sure it has it's benefits, but a few weeks ago I witnessed a "soldier" questioning a 16 year old on a bike. He wasn't any danger to anyone, possibly only to himself.

I've also seen random tourists questioned about their photography activity around public monuments. They sent riot police to deal with a spattering of stoned Covid deniers on Clapham Common, they really didn't need to. I had constant annoyance for years by sniffer dogs being directed towards me at Railway Station. If anyone thought that was anti-terrorism initiative they will be sadly disappointed.

To use a modern phrase the "optics" are absolutely terrible and a lot of the activity is purely public relations focussed (performed very very badly) rather than fighting crime.

I guess some will say damned if they do, damned if they don't. The reality being that the MET are obsessed with being seen to be doing.

 

[The Clamp]

Completely, but the MET over the years and moved on from clusterf### to clusterf###.

It's not about protecting the Government in charge, it's about protecting themselves from the Government in charge.

They don't want to dragged into politics and in doing so have dragged themselves into politics. With sensible and effective leadership the disaster of the Clapham Common protests didn't need to happen.

In trying to stop a situation they created one and that's the MET leadership all over.

They *could* have nipped this in the bud at the time, but chose not to. I can't believe for one second the goings on at number 10 weren't being discussed at the highest levels.

Agree with all the above. I think the well worn phrase that everything Johnson touches becomes toxic has never been truer than this investigation. You get involved with Johnson on any level and you'll get shat on. You lay with dogs.....

 

[The Clamp]

Every front page of every major newspaper tomorrow has the photo of Johnson at his party, raising a glass, all of them calling his leadership into question.

Except one newspaper that has gone with a story about the rail strikes possibly causing blackouts, a pic of her Maj in a golf buggy and a story about how vitamins are useless.

I don't need to name the paper, do I?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think what has happened is that the Met has handed out the questionnaires, the Tory's have got together and decided that the Junior staff will cop to everything and the senior MP's will admit to a token couple of indiscretions. They have all filled their forms out knowing exactly what they are all admitting to and exactly what the outcome will be.

Now, because the method of investigation by the Met was fundamentally useless, the only tactic they seem to have employed is to ask the accused "did you break the law"? and then taken their answer at face value.

That seems to be the sum total effort of their investigation. That's where the Met are culpable and actively complicit in a cover-up. When someone in the Met decided that was going to be the method of "investigation", they would have been acutely aware that any outcome would be entirely dependent on who was willing to 'fess up.

It's ludicrous to believe the Met thought that their chosen method of investigation could garner, by any measure, reliable results . They basically stepped aside and let Johnson choose the outcome of their investigation. And the Met are entirely culpable because they chose to do this.

The Met weren’t going to investigate at all, until the GoodLawproject threatened to Sue them.

 

[clapham_gull]

The Met weren’t going to investigate at all, until the GoodLawproject threatened to Sue them.

Classic Met and let's not forget the hamster wheel of decision making and public announcements around the time.

The irony is they could have stood up to Good Law Project (which really hasn't been very successful) and is too politicised in my opinion.

If the Met isn't having a crises it will invent one.

Retrospectively, history will probably judge that it was better that the Met stuck to their line of not investigating retrospectively because all they have done is delay the report.

Creating a situation where they felt they had to pause issuing fines prior to local elections.

 

[The Clamp]

Classic Met and let's not forget the hamster wheel of decision making and public announcements around the time.

The irony is they could have stood up to Good Law Project (which really hasn't been very successful) and is too politicised in my opinion.

If the Met isn't having a crises it will invent one.

Retrospectively, history will probably judge that it was better that the Met stuck to their line of not investigating retrospectively because all they have done is delay the report.

Great line.

 

[W.C.]

While on a slightly different level - my local Tory candidate proposed running down cyclists .... can't imagine how he's going to defend that if he knocks on my door !

Timmy?

 

[clapham_gull]

And to be clear, I'm not anti Police at all.

I feel desperately sorry for those on the ground who have had to put up with such appalling politicised leadership for years and have to take the abuse.

I clearly remember seeing officers stationed outside Stockwell tube station (the next day) taking all sorts of abuse even to the extent that passers by were spitting on the pavement in front of them.

Why on earth someone thinking placing those officers there in the first place was a good idea, is anyone's guess.

 

[The Clamp]

And to be clear, I'm not anti Police at all.

I feel desperately sorry for those on the ground who have had to put up with such appalling politicised leadership for years and have to take the abuse.

I clearly remember seeing officers stationed outside Stockwell tube station (the next day) taking all sorts of abuse even to the extent that passers by were spitting on the pavement in front of them.

Why on earth someone thinking placing those officers there in the first place was a good idea, is anyone's guess.

Again, I agree. The vast majority of uniformed officers and detectives are in it for all the right reasons. It's the seated ranks who drink Brandy with MP's and hide each other's mistakes that draw my scorn. Big sausagey handshakes and ruddy cheeks turned the other way. Ugh. They're all the same corrupt swine just dressed in different uniforms.

 

[clapham_gull]

A number of our public services suffer from the same problem. Unfortunately the debate very quickly descends into a binary argument of whether the private sector could do it better....

My own opinion is that the attempt to modernise public services by importing private sector practices has created a new hybrid beast that is an utter toxic mix.

It simply doesn't work. I have no idea what the solution is. I suspect that the public sector has baulked at difficult organisational challenges and embraced the "easy bit" of trying to fool the public with public relations.

I've thought for a long time that possibly people like the Head of the Met should be directly accountable to an electorate. Unfortunately this was the country that voted for a dog to win Britain's Got Talent.

It's depressing.

 

[W.C.]

Knob jockey?

Knob jockey

I didn't know that writing Timmy on NSC would come up as Knob jockey. Excellent work. And very true.

 

[darkwolf666]

A number of our public services suffer from the same problem. Unfortunately the debate very quickly descends into a binary argument of whether the private sector could do it better....

My own opinion is that the attempt to modernise public services by importing private sector practices has created a new hybrid beast that is an utter toxic mix.

It simply doesn't work. I have no idea what the solution is. I suspect that the public sector has baulked at difficult organisational challenges and embraced the "easy bit" of trying to fool the public with public relations.

I've thought for a long time that possibly people like the Head of the Met should be directly accountable to an electorate. Unfortunately this was the country that voted for a dog to win Britain's Got Talent.

It's depressing.

In my experience as a former employee of the MPS (it’s a Service, not a Force, I was reminded on many an occasion), which is possibly true of many large organisations - incompetence results in promotion.

It is far easier to push someone “up the line” out of the way of making decisions that can cause harm.

However, I disagree with the idea of making the head of the MPS answerable to the electorate, as you would then further exacerbate the situation we already have where difficult decisions are put off for fear of recriminations. The police should be allowed to make decisions based on facts and not pressurised into acting as the servants of a lynch mob, in particular a politically motivated one.

However, unfortunately, again as in many public service organisations, there are also far to many at the top of the service looking for their next gong and fear upsetting the political applecart for fear of missing out on their Knighthood or similar, and do appear able to turn a blind eye, so it becomes, in this case, the previously shunted out of the way, promoted incompetent’s making the big calls.

As you say, the British public can’t be trusted with making decisions, decisions that would undoubtedly be affected by those in the media with a vested interest to serve their paymasters.

 

[vegster]

Every front page of every major newspaper tomorrow has the photo of Johnson at his party, raising a glass, all of them calling his leadership into question.

Except one newspaper that has gone with a story about the rail strikes possibly causing blackouts, a pic of her Maj in a golf buggy and a story about how vitamins are useless.

I don't need to name the paper, do I?

Yes, they are really struggling to find a worthwhile story this morning....must have been desperate times in the Editors office last night....rather shows up the true " Enemy of The People " .

 

[lawros left foot]

If he was also meant to be ‘self isolating’ it will be even more difficult to explain as just a work thing.

Hopefully his toast will make him toast.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Hopefully his toast will make him toast.

I see what you did there