[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Herr Tubthumper]

Having no horse in this race, I wonder what you make of today's statement ?

 

[Audax]

Hard border between NI and Republic incoming?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-to-tear-up-northern-ireland-protocol-reports

Liz Truss is reportedly preparing draft legislation that would unilaterally scrap key parts of the Northern Ireland protocol removing the need for checks on goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

No bill is expected to be announced in the Queen’s speech on Tuesday but the foreign secretary is reported to have asked officials to prepare the draft, which would put the UK in breach of its treaty obligations......

Dangerous move with Sinn Fein now the largest party in NI, I think. Suspect this will turn out to be yet another case of the Tories badly failing to read the room.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Here's my (pretty reasonable) reply from my Tory MP, to my email of 12.04.22:

Thank you so much for contacting me.

I deliberately haven’t replied before today because this is all moving so fast again (since the issue of the Fixed Penalty Notices last Tuesday) and we obviously had today’s Privilege Motion before the House of Commons which I wanted to include in my response to you as well as touching on the wider issue.

To be clear, the motion today orders that “this matter be referred to the Committee of Privileges to consider whether the (Prime Minister’s) conduct amounted to a contempt of the House, but that the Committee shall not begin substantive consideration of the matter until the inquiries currently being conducted by the Metropolitan Police have been concluded.”

As I confirmed in the House earlier, I supported this motion – laid by the Leader of the Opposition – which seemed perfectly reasonable to me and indeed it passed just before 5pm this evening. You can view the debate in full at: Referral of Prime Minister to Committee of Privileges - Hansard - UK Parliament

This is, quite properly, now a matter for the House and shouldn’t be confused with a confidence vote among Conservative MPs.

On that; my view is sooner rather than later one should take place because, for so many reasons, this is not a sustainable situation and I suspect further FPN’s will follow those issued last week. I will be liaising with senior colleagues to see that confidence is tested in the period ahead.

For my part, I have spoken in Parliament this week about access to NHS dentistry, involving our young people in the drive for net zero and new immigration plans set out during Easter recess to tackle criminal gangs operating in the Channel. Over the Easter recess, I’ve held a major public meeting in Winchester with a senior Government Minister (Alok Sharma about COP26), I’ve visited schools and I’ve been out across the area knocking on doors listening to what my constituents have to say ahead of important local elections next month.

In other words, I’ve been doing what I always do – my job. It is of deep and continuing frustration to me, and many of my colleagues, that so much bandwidth is being taken up (we lost a key debate in the Commons on childhood cancer this afternoon to consider the Privilege Motion) with what’s been dubbed ‘party-gate’. It must be resolved.

Finally, I understand many of the loudest voices (and perhaps even some people emailing me) on this matter are not – and never were – supporters of mine or the Prime Minister. That is politics and I’ve been around long enough to know that will never change but I hope, as I’ve said many times before, we can conclude this matter in a civilised and polite manner that lowers the temperature of political debate.

You can catch-up on more of my work as our MP, and read my new column (published today) for the Hampshire Chronicle, at : www.stevebrine.com/news

Kind regards,

Steve Brine MP

Steve Brine MP
Working hard for Winchester & Chandler’s Ford

 

[dsr-burnley]

Hard border between NI and Republic incoming?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-to-tear-up-northern-ireland-protocol-reports

Liz Truss is reportedly preparing draft legislation that would unilaterally scrap key parts of the Northern Ireland protocol removing the need for checks on goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

No bill is expected to be announced in the Queen’s speech on Tuesday but the foreign secretary is reported to have asked officials to prepare the draft, which would put the UK in breach of its treaty obligations......

It wouldn't put the UK in breach of treaty obligations because the treaty has a specific clause that allows either party to scrap the protocol. Which, incidentally, the EU have already done once so it's not as if they have any objection in principle to the protocol being cancelled.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It wouldn't put the UK in breach of treaty obligations because the treaty has a specific clause that allows either party to scrap the protocol. Which, incidentally, the EU have already done once so it's not as if they have any objection in principle to the protocol being cancelled.

Not entirely correct.

Article 16 allows for suspension if '"economic, societal or environmental difficulties" prevail. If the UK triggers A16 without good reason then it will be in breach...and suffer the full consequences of this. Given the way the government are carrying on, i.e. it's more their arrogance and ineptitude and inability to impliment the protocol than any real difficulties, I struggle to see how they will win. The goverment cant even impliment their own self-imposed border controls at Dover so what will make anyone think they tried and failed with the North Sea?

 

[dsr-burnley]

Not entirely correct.

Article 16 allows for suspension if '"economic, societal or environmental difficulties" prevail. If the UK triggers A16 without good reason then it will be in breach...and suffer the full consequences of this. Given the way the government are carrying on, i.e. it's more their arrogance and ineptitude and inability to impliment the protocol than any real difficulties, I struggle to see how they will win. The goverment cant even impliment their own self-imposed border controls at Dover so what will make anyone think they tried and failed with the North Sea?

It's pretty obvious that the NI Protocol is driving a coach and horses through the Good Friday agreement, which is going well and truly down the tubes. Certainly that qualifies as "good reason". The problem is that the EU is determined that Northern Ireland should follow the same rules as the EU, while the UK government is determined that Northern Ireland should follow the same rules as the rest of the country, and the two can't marry up.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It's pretty obvious that the NI Protocol is driving a coach and horses through the Good Friday agreement, which is going well and truly down the tubes. Certainly that qualifies as "good reason". The problem is that the EU is determined that Northern Ireland should follow the same rules as the EU, while the UK government is determined that Northern Ireland should follow the same rules as the rest of the country, and the two can't marry up.

They can. It would be very easy indeed. Just re-join the Customs Union, and this problem, along with a thousand others, all go away.

 

[A1X]

Looking forward to seeing us trying to lecture Putin on the sanctity of international law in Ukraine while we're breaking it in Northern Ireland

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's pretty obvious that the NI Protocol is driving a coach and horses through the Good Friday agreement, which is going well and truly down the tubes. Certainly that qualifies as "good reason". The problem is that the EU is determined that Northern Ireland should follow the same rules as the EU, while the UK government is determined that Northern Ireland should follow the same rules as the rest of the country, and the two can't marry up.

The EU merely wants NI to follow the rules in the protocol the UK first negotiated, signed, and then voted on in parliament. Nothing more; seems entirely reasonable to me? I say nothing more, the EU have actually offered something less as a compromise.

 

[TomandJerry]

The Home Office has admitted that lesbian, gay and bisexual refugees could be persecuted if sent to Rwanda – but still plans to fly them 4,000 miles to Kigali.

The department’s equality impact assessment for the policy states there are “concerns” over the treatment of some LGBTQI+ people in the east African country, and that investigations point to “ill treatment” of this group being “more than one off”.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[nicko31]

The EU merely wants NI to follow the rules in the protocol the UK first negotiated, signed, and then voted on in parliament. Nothing more; seems entirely reasonable to me? I say nothing more, the EU have actually offered something less as a compromise.

The Tories wanted to rush to through without scrutiny in December 2019, they were too distracted with Christmas. Either move on or rejoin the CU/SM..

 

[rippleman]

The Home Office has admitted that lesbian, gay and bisexual refugees could be persecuted if sent to Rwanda – but still plans to fly them 4,000 miles to Kigali.

The department’s equality impact assessment for the policy states there are “concerns” over the treatment of some LGBTQI+ people in the east African country, and that investigations point to “ill treatment” of this group being “more than one off”.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

https://www.rainbowmigration.org.uk/news/rwanda-is-not-safe-for-lgbtqi-people/

https://www.equaldex.com/region/rwanda

Good to see our wonderful, politically astute Home Secretary being so supportive of gay rights.

Some refugees will have come here having been persecuted in their home countries for their sexuality. So we ship them out to another country where they will....er...be persecuted for their sexuality.

Don't it make you feel proud to be British eh?

 

[dsr-burnley]

The EU merely wants NI to follow the rules in the protocol the UK first negotiated, signed, and then voted on in parliament. Nothing more; seems entirely reasonable to me? I say nothing more, the EU have actually offered something less as a compromise.

Regardless of the Good Friday Agreement? It seems to me that if something isn't working, which this clearly isn't, then it needs changing. I know that to the EU their customs union rules are first and foremost their raisin d'etre, but from the UK (and presumably Ireland)'s point of view, the Good Friday Agreement should get some consideration too.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Regardless of the Good Friday Agreement? It seems to me that if something isn't working, which this clearly isn't, then it needs changing. I know that to the EU their customs union rules are first and foremost their raisin d'etre, but from the UK (and presumably Ireland)'s point of view, the Good Friday Agreement should get some consideration too.

The NIP was initiated, negotiated and signed off by Johnson, Frost and co as their 'Oven Ready Brexit Deal' solution to May's Northern Ireland Backstop solution, presumably taking the Good Friday Agreement into consideration.

Now I agree that maybe they should have given some consideration to the logic of the solution, whether it was actually implementable and their ability to implement it before they proposed, negotiated, sold it and signed it off but all these issues were well known and widely reported at the time.

Having proven completely incompetent in that aspect, it couldn't be that Johnson made up and sold something that was completely undeliverable in the form he sold it, has failed to deliver it and still has no logical answer to it (and has never given a toss about the Good Friday Agreement), could it ?

I really don't see WTF any of this to do with the EU ?

 

[usernamed]

Regardless of the Good Friday Agreement? It seems to me that if something isn't working, which this clearly isn't, then it needs changing. I know that to the EU their customs union rules are first and foremost their raisin d'etre, but from the UK (and presumably Ireland)'s point of view, the Good Friday Agreement should get some consideration too.

My understanding was that the locals had warmed to the Northern Ireland Protocol after recent EU concessions, and were now more for than against. I’d heard that given as one of the reasons for the drop in the DUP’s popularity.

My understanding was that this is more a DUP political power play, than a genuine concern of the people of Ireland. It’s a shame to see parties put ideology before the people they’re supposed to represent.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The NIP was initiated, negotiated and signed off by Johnson, Frost and co as their 'Oven Ready Brexit Deal' solution to May's Northern Ireland Backstop solution, presumably taking the Good Friday Agreement into consideration.

Now I agree that maybe they should have given some consideration to the logic of the solution, whether it was actually implementable and their ability to implement it before they proposed, negotiated, sold it and signed it off but all these issues were well known and widely reported at the time.

Having proven completely incompetent in that aspect, it couldn't be that Johnson made up and sold something that was completely undeliverable in the form he sold it, has failed to deliver it and still has no logical answer to it (and has never given a toss about the Good Friday Agreement), could it ?

I really don't see WTF any of this to do with the EU ?

At risk of stating the bleeding obvious, the reason's it's got to do with the EU is that it's an agreement between the EU and the UK, and that the Republic of Ireland is part of the EU.

 

[nicko31]

My understanding was that the locals had warmed to the Northern Ireland Protocol after recent EU concessions, and were now more for than against. I’d heard that given as one of the reasons for the drop in the DUP’s popularity.

My understanding was that this is more a DUP political power play, than a genuine concern of the people of Ireland. It’s a shame to see parties put ideology before the people they’re supposed to represent.

Most people in NI really like the protocol. In fact as a result its the only UK nation where business is booming.

Now that is a problem for the Tories, a big problem....

 

[WATFORD zero]

At risk of stating the bleeding obvious, the reason's it's got to do with the EU is that it's an agreement between the EU and the UK, and that the Republic of Ireland is part of the EU.

The reason I say it has nothing to do with the EU is because it was an agreement that was negotiated, signed off and delivered nearly 2 and a half years ago. We now need to move on and the only way to do that is for Britain to get it's part of brexit done. The EU have had the processes and procedures from their part of the agreement in place since day 1 and haven't got anything left to do, we need to do the same, even if JRM now thinks it's 'an act of self harm'

But I wouldn't want this thread to go off topic, so maybe we should discuss one of the other issues behind the Tory meltdown incoming

Oh well, at least with this particular dead cat gone for a while, we can now get back to

The ongoing Ukraine war
The Russian Report
Raging inflation
Electricity and Gas crisis (with more to come in October)
How we implement JRM's 'Act of self harm' Border controls
Shipping Immigrants to Rwanda (and getting theirs in return)
The Sue Gray report
Growing costs of Imported food
The upcoming (or current) recession
The Covid PPE investigation
The unimplementable Northern Ireland Protocol
Increasing poverty levels
Farming industry issues with growing, harvesting and slaughtering
The huge increase in immigrants making the channel crossing over the last 2 years
Visa issues for Ukrainian refugees
The increasing national debt

so at least there's some good news. I'm sure I've missed something

Choose a card, any card

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Regardless of the Good Friday Agreement? It seems to me that if something isn't working, which this clearly isn't, then it needs changing. I know that to the EU their customs union rules are first and foremost their raisin d'etre, but from the UK (and presumably Ireland)'s point of view, the Good Friday Agreement should get some consideration too.

Bottom line is that this isn’t the EU’s problem. I look forward to seeing how the UK proposes to square the circle of the Good Friday Agreement and their desire to remove the North Sea border.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

At risk of stating the bleeding obvious, the reason's it's got to do with the EU is that it's an agreement between the EU and the UK, and that the Republic of Ireland is part of the EU.

You’re missing the point that this is the UK’s problem to solve. We’re fine with the agreement which is why we signed it.

Let’s not forget you knew what you were voting for, this was the easiest deal in the world and you held all the aces; how on earth did you get yourself into this position where it seems anything but?