[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think you've summed that up rather well.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out in the TV debate this evening. Will Sunk try (yet again) the failed gambit of hiding behind the Gambling Commission investigation? Would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall in CCHQ and the PM's office this morning, as they try to work out the best damage-limitation strategy.

Cheers.

Sadly it will all be 'whatabout the labour candidate who.....'.

Somehow Sunk will probably seek to mock Starmer's decisive action over the Labour miscreants.....something along the lines of 'Labour running from one crisis to another'. Yes, I know; madness. But there will be millions of nodding dogs out there in agreement. Millions of people will be voting Conservative on July 4. Frightening, isn't it?

 

[rippleman]

The Tories gambling on the election date (well, not a gamble at all but a cast-iron certainty) information must surely have come from the one source who knew the election date before anybody else. Sunak. He must have "tipped off" at least one person who placed a bet.

That one person could then have shared their knowledge of course. But the original source HAS to be Sunak.

 

[Lenny Rider]

With Sunak's campaign prowess being right up there with Michael Foot in 1983, would the opinion polls have been any different if they'd ditched him within the last 12 months and got another leader, Penny Morduant or someone similar?

Or is this Sunak car crash effectively the side salad to a national dislike of the Tories?

 

[virtual22]

Would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall in CCHQ and the PM's office this morning, as they try to work out the best damage-limitation strategy.

I would guess not turning up!

 

[Greg Bobkin]

With Sunak's campaign prowess being right up there with Michael Foot in 1983, would the opinion polls have been any different if they'd ditched him within the last 12 months and got another leader, Penny Morduant or someone similar?

Or is this Sunak car crash effectively the side salad to a national dislike of the Tories?

He assumed office in October 2022, which would've meant getting rid of him within a matter of months, having installed him as a supposed safe(r) pair of hands than the absolute disaster that was Liz 'the lettuce-botherer' Truss. Admitting defeat and acknowledging the general incompetence of the Prime Minister twice in a row would've been political suicide and possibly ended up with a GE being called early. Which, possibly would've given them a better chance of winning than now!

I don't think it's solely down to Sunak and his general inability – although he does seem to be PARTICULARLY bad at leading and generally doesn't look like he gives a shit about it. I think the whole lot of them are a crock of shite, with no-one actually capable of making a positive difference. But politics is cyclical, so I'm already prepared for sniping from the right towards how Labour are ruining the country, right up until the point where there Tories/Reform/a coalition gets in to replace them and then the circus rolls on. Rinse and repeat over a lifetime and, generally speaking, not much changes.

 

[Lenny Rider]

He assumed office in October 2022, which would've meant getting rid of him within a matter of months, having installed him as a supposed safe(r) pair of hands than the absolute disaster that was Liz 'the lettuce-botherer' Truss. Admitting defeat and acknowledging the general incompetence of the Prime Minister twice in a row would've been political suicide and possibly ended up with a GE being called early. Which, possibly would've given them a better chance of winning than now!

I don't think it's solely down to Sunak and his general inability – although he does seem to be PARTICULARLY bad at leading and generally doesn't look like he gives a shit about it. I think the whole lot of them are a crock of shite, with no-one actually capable of making a positive difference. But politics is cyclical, so I'm already prepared for sniping from the right towards how Labour are ruining the country, right up until the point where there Tories/Reform/a coalition gets in to replace them and then the circus rolls on. Rinse and repeat over a lifetime and, generally speaking, not much changes.

Greg do you think the 'new' party will still contain the word Conservative, or is this really the end for the Tories?

 

[JetsetJimbo]

I'm old enough to have witnessed "the end of the Conservatives" more than once. Just saying.

 

[Machiavelli]

He assumed office in October 2022, which would've meant getting rid of him within a matter of months, having installed him as a supposed safe(r) pair of hands than the absolute disaster that was Liz 'the lettuce-botherer' Truss. Admitting defeat and acknowledging the general incompetence of the Prime Minister twice in a row would've been political suicide and possibly ended up with a GE being called early. Which, possibly would've given them a better chance of winning than now!

I don't think it's solely down to Sunak and his general inability – although he does seem to be PARTICULARLY bad at leading and generally doesn't look like he gives a shit about it. I think the whole lot of them are a crock of shite, with no-one actually capable of making a positive difference. But politics is cyclical, so I'm already prepared for sniping from the right towards how Labour are ruining the country, right up until the point where there Tories/Reform/a coalition gets in to replace them and then the circus rolls on. Rinse and repeat over a lifetime and, generally speaking, not much changes.

That's a particularly cynical conclusion. Of course things change. We only know we're so deep in the mire because it's a clear contrast to what it was previously. Here are a couple of apposite articles written of late that are worth looking at:

Improving people’s lives should be Labour’s first priority. Not that Ming vase | Kenan Malik

Britain is angry about poverty and austerity but Keir Starmer seems more worried about Tory criticism

www.theguardian.com

Thatcherism, austerity, Brexit, Liz Truss... goodbye and good riddance to all that | Will Hutton

For 45 years, Britain has been blighted by Conservative ideologies that promised a path to prosperity, but achieved nothing of the sort

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dave the OAP]

The REFORM candidate for Portslade and hove is called ….

Martin Hess.

 

[papachris]

With Sunak's campaign prowess being right up there with Michael Foot in 1983, would the opinion polls have been any different if they'd ditched him within the last 12 months and got another leader, Penny Morduant or someone similar?

Or is this Sunak car crash effectively the side salad to a national dislike of the Tories?

I think the conservatives would still lose the election, a lot of damage already done to their reputation by liar Johnson and car crash Truss. Sure people are ready for change but the conservative campaign is so bad with so many own goals you couldn't make it up. The biggest danger in my opinion is a large amount of people supporting trump impersonator Farage.
Nationalism in any country is very dangerous and it seems to be on the rise around the world

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Greg do you think the 'new' party will still contain the word Conservative, or is this really the end for the Tories?

I have no idea, but I'm not stating it will be the end of the Tories. All I'm saying is that, when the time comes, it's not a dead cert that the Tories will replace Labour. It could be Reform, it could be a coalition or, yes, it could be the tories

That's a particularly cynical conclusion. Of course things change. We only know we're so deep in the mire because it's a clear contrast to what it was previously. Here are a couple of apposite articles written of late that are worth looking at:

Improving people’s lives should be Labour’s first priority. Not that Ming vase | Kenan Malik

Britain is angry about poverty and austerity but Keir Starmer seems more worried about Tory criticism

www.theguardian.com

Thatcherism, austerity, Brexit, Liz Truss... goodbye and good riddance to all that | Will Hutton

For 45 years, Britain has been blighted by Conservative ideologies that promised a path to prosperity, but achieved nothing of the sort

www.theguardian.com

That's why I put 'generally speaking'. For example, there will still be tories complaining about Labour (there already are: one of my mates is banging ON AND ON about how "Labour is going to ruin this country in two years") and, for a lot of people, there won't be huge changes to how they live their lives. The country is clearly divided, so there will remain a constant stream of people on both 'sides' continuing to argue the toss, which seems to be the main goal for political figures online. Instead of going into obscurity, it could almost give the likes of GB News and right wing nutjobs even more of a platform. You think Darren Grimes, Dan Wooton and any of that ilk are bad NOW, just wait until the subject of their attacks are actually in POWER!

I'm not going down a 'they're all as bad as each other' or 'Labour and the Tories are the same' road but, I'm not naive enough to think that just because the government has changed, my life and millions of other lives are going to be *dramatically* different to now. There isn't the money, resources or – let's face it – enthusiasm available to, for example: 'fix' the NHS; repair all the potholes (total cost is estimated to be about £12bn, as I recall); overhaul mental health facilities; sort out the rivers; get the public transport network back on track (pun intended). Yes, the economy will improve, because that's cyclical too.

If that's cynical, then so be it. I prefer the term realistic

 

[Nobby]

The REFORM candidate for Portslade and hove is called ….

Martin Hess.

Apparently there’s one in Stoke Poges called Adonius Hilter


Actually I made that up.

But there might as well be

 

[oldboyroy]

Now that it’s been confirmed that up to 15 Tory candidates and officials are being investigated, I suspect the Tories will try and keep quiet about any other candidates. It could really affect their chances of getting over 100 MP

Especially if 1 of them is Rishi although he's already said he hasn't

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Regardless of what voters might say about betting gate, I seriously doubt that in the privacy of the voting booth it will make the slighest difference. If they were previously prepared to vote Tory in light of all the other major scandals and cock ups which had been attributed to the Tories they will just see these as a bit of a jolly jape which public schoolboys will get up to and put their X next to whichever buffoon happens to be the Conservative candidate. All rather depressing really.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Especially if 1 of them is Rishi although he's already said he hasn't

A bit like Boris saying there were no parties in Downing Street during lockdown ?

 

[The Clamp]

The Tories gambling on the election date (well, not a gamble at all but a cast-iron certainty) information must surely have come from the one source who knew the election date before anybody else. Sunak. He must have "tipped off" at least one person who placed a bet.

That one person could then have shared their knowledge of course. But the original source HAS to be Sunak.

Technically yes. But he may have legitimately informed those that needed to know prior to the public announcement.

It doesn’t make Sunak guilty of tipping anyone off.

 

[A1X]

 

[Dick Swiveller]

The same Philip Davies who recently went on a podcast about political betting?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The same Philip Davies who recently went on a podcast about political betting?

Yes, this same Philip Davies, married to Esther McVey.

 

[clapham_gull]

With Sunak's campaign prowess being right up there with Michael Foot in 1983, would the opinion polls have been any different if they'd ditched him within the last 12 months and got another leader, Penny Morduant or someone similar?

Or is this Sunak car crash effectively the side salad to a national dislike of the Tories?

The leader isn't the issue. The party has morphed into a populist "anti establishment" crazy fruitcake. Which is interesting for three important reasons ->

1) They in power and have been for 14 years, they are the establishment.
2) They took us out the EU and still talk as if they haven't
3) Since Boris they act (and appear comfortable) with attacking the opposition, as if the opposition are in power.

They desperately need a decade in opposition to sort themselves out. Not your usual end of days party in power, they've acted like the opposition for years.