[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Bodian]

We're all in it together

"The Plan is Working"

His plan is quite clear, and it does indeed appear to be working for him and his wealthy mates.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Ok, I'm not an economist but my understanding of what's happened is as follows: the harm is the massive and rapidly growing difference in wealth between the rich/ultra-rich and the rest of us, fuelled by the action of the ruling classes - ultra-low interest rates and money printing driving up asset prices (property, shares, commodities) which are mainly owned by the rich. Inflation won't affect them - if you've got a few billion it doesn't matter if a loaf of bread doubles in price. If everything you earn goes on rent, bills and food then it does matter. Yes I know raising interest rates hurts normal people with mortgages and most of the damage was done before Sunak came to power. Add to that their policies of under-funding and general screwing up public services (in this country at least) which the lower and middle classes rely on. If Rishi gets ill you can guarantee he won't use the NHS (although there'll probably be some cringeable staged publicity stunt of him going for a test at his local hospital).

And I've just read Pevenseagull's post above - no idea if it's true but then again I'm 100% certain if I look into it I'll find out it is true. The difference with TB is that he doesn't dictate rules and policies which increase his wealth (and makes others worse off).

Took some finding

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(I was wrong when I stated it was their biggest investment, it was their second biggest investment)

 

[Jim in the West]

"The Plan is Working"

His plan is quite clear, and it does indeed appear to be working for him and his wealthy mates.

And remember, WE are the elite, the "establishment", etc, etc. They (Rishi, Boris, Rees-Mogg and all their cronies) have managed to convince millions of ordinary folk that university lecturers, judges, doctors, Guardian-readers, climate campaigners, the BBC, artists, equal-rights activists, the "wokerati", advocates for safer streets, etc, etc are the problem!

 

[beorhthelm]

Infosys made their biggest ever financial investment (£1.5billion) into BP two months before Sunak announced surprise expansion on north sea oil and gas licences.

what does one multinational company using another multinational company got to do with the question? it's people trying desperately to make a conspiracy.

 

[beorhthelm]

Ok, I'm not an economist but my understanding of what's happened is as follows: the harm is the massive and rapidly growing difference in wealth between the rich/ultra-rich and the rest of us, fuelled by the action of the ruling classes - ultra-low interest rates and money printing driving up asset prices (property, shares, commodities) which are mainly owned by the rich. Inflation won't affect them - if you've got a few billion it doesn't matter if a loaf of bread doubles in price. If everything you earn goes on rent, bills and food then it does matter. Yes I know raising interest rates hurts normal people with mortgages and most of the damage was done before Sunak came to power. Add to that their policies of under-funding and general screwing up public services (in this country at least) which the lower and middle classes rely on. If Rishi gets ill you can guarantee he won't use the NHS (although there'll probably be some cringeable staged publicity stunt of him going for a test at his local hospital).

And I've just read Pevenseagull's post above - no idea if it's true but then again I'm 100% certain if I look into it I'll find out it is true. The difference with TB is that he doesn't dictate rules and policies which increase his wealth (and makes others worse off).

it's true in the past 15 years actions of politicans have caused inflated asset prices. some have become wealthy on the back of that. the cause and effect is not the right way round for harm caused by people being wealthy, they didn't make the politicans take that action - unless again we're back to conspiracy? we're no worse off because shares in a company are valued highly, which is what most wealth is. I wonder who would say the politicans shouldn't have kept loose monetary policy and we'd be better if they let the market correct itself.

as this about Sunak, perhaps anyone with wealth should be barred from politics. maybe a case to make for that, so lets say that outright and open up discussion on who should and should not be allowed into politics.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

what does one multinational company using another multinational company got to do with the question? it's people trying desperately to make a conspiracy.

The Chancellor, Sunak, gave furlough money to his wife, for firms now closed down. You think people are desperately trying to make conspiracies?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

it's true in the past 15 years actions of politicans have inflated asset prices. some have become wealthy on the back of that. the cause and effect is not the right way round for harm caused by people being wealthy, they didn't make the politicans take that action - unless again we're back to conspiracy? we're no worse off because shares in a company are valued highly, which is what most wealth is.

as this about Sunak, perhaps anyone with wealth should be barred from politics. maybe a case to make for that, so lets say that outright and open up discussion on who should and should not be allowed into politics.

Maybe politicians should be more open and honest with their financial dealings.

 

[beorhthelm]

The Chancellor, Sunak, gave furlough money to his wife, for firms now closed down. You think people are desperately trying to make conspiracies?

well the poster didnt say anything on that, they want to link company deals.
we could say Murty's companies should have been barred from any furlough, should have funded them or closed them from the start. apply same to all politicans and their families, get the root of the issue rather than individuals.

yes, people are trying to make conspiracies, see many related running daily on social media. a lot of it's in the framing, like saying the Chancellor gave his wife's business money, rather than seeing it as any companies applied for money available.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

well the poster didnt say anything on that, they want to link company deals.
we could say Murty's companies should have been barred from any furlough, should have funded them or closed them from the start. apply same to all politicans and their families, get the root of the issue rather than individuals.

yes, people are trying to make conspiracies, see many related running daily on social media. a lot of it's in the framing, like saying the Chancellor gave his wife's business money, rather than seeing it as any companies applied for money available.

The press have been reporting it, not just social media. Why do you feel a need to defend them?

 

[beorhthelm]

The press have been reporting it, not just social media. Why do you feel a need to defend them?

not defending them, it's questioning the reasoning. asking if politicans and families should be not be involved in business.

 

[Bodian]

what does one multinational company using another multinational company got to do with the question? it's people trying desperately to make a conspiracy.

Surely you can see the optics here?

• Wife of Person A - owns large stake in Company 1
• Company 2 - makes profits from extracting oil/gas
• Company 1 - makes their largest ever investment, by investing in company 2 - their return will be directly related to the profitability of Company 2
• Person A - announces a surprise expansion for oil/gas licences, thereby ensuring the profitability of Company 2, thereby ensuring that his wife's company's investment will also be profitable.

Hardly a 'conspiracy' is it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Surely you can see the optics here?

• Wife of Person A - owns large stake in Company 1
• Company 2 - makes profits from extracting oil/gas
• Company 1 - makes their largest ever investment, by investing in company 2 - their return will be directly related to the profitability of Company 2
• Person A - announces a surprise expansion for oil/gas licences, thereby ensuring the profitability of Company 2, thereby ensuring that his wife's company's investment will also be profitable.

Hardly a 'conspiracy' is it.

you're literally presenting it as a conspiracy, inferring the deal was only possible because of links between company and influence on future government policy. getting the investment wrong along the way, BP bought services from Infosys.

the optics are indeed poor, people see what they want.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

you're literally presenting it as a conspiracy, inferring the deal was only possible because of links between company and influence on future government policy. getting the investment wrong along the way, BP bought services from Infosys.

the optics are indeed poor, people see what they want.

I fully agree with your last five words.

My argument is that leaders of the country need to be transparent, no matter their political allegiance.

 

[A1X]

Politics would be better if it was the preserve of poor people, not rich ones

 

[Pevenseagull]

what does one multinational company using another multinational company got to do with the question? it's people trying desperately to make a conspiracy.

Because a collosal sum of money changed hands in advance of their being public knowledge of something that fundamentally influence the value of the deal involved.

It wasn't a run of the mill deal, it was the second biggest transaction that Infosys has ever been involved in.

Coincidence is for gamblers.

Massive financial gains are for insider dealers and corrupt politicians.

 

[beorhthelm]

Because a collosal sum of money changed hands in advance of their being public knowledge of something that fundamentally influence the value of the deal involved.

It wasn't a run of the mill deal, it was the second biggest transaction that Infosys has ever been involved in.

Coincidence is for gamblers.

Massive financial gains are for insider dealers and corrupt politicians.

going back i see you believe Infosys invested in BP, when the deal goes the other way, and a multiyear deal not a single transaction. i'd say it's odd you've seen it like this, but evidently that's how it's been portrayed by some. how it was reported in India if interested.

maybe we could go back to the question of why wealth is such a problem, and ask if multi-millionaire Dale Vince is really in a position to throw stones (cant believe i missed that either).

 

[Pevenseagull]

going back i see you believe Infosys invested in BP, when the deal goes the other way, and a multiyear deal not a single transaction. i'd say it's odd you've seen it like this, but evidently that's how it's been portrayed by some. how it was reported in India if interested.

maybe we could go back to the question of why wealth is such a problem, and ask if multi-millionaire Dale Vince is really in a position to throw stones (cant believe i missed that either).

You're absolutely right

I am indeed a tin foil hat wearing buffon.

Thank you for helping me realise the error of my ways

It is clearly entirely beyond reproach, 100% legitimate and the very thought that huge sums of money moving hands between the family of the Prime Minister in advance of public notifications of Government decisions that had a fundamental influence on the value of the deal is in no way worthy of the raising of even Mona Lisa's eyebrow.

 

[TomandJerry]

Some schools in England are sending police to the homes of children who are persistently absent, or warning them their parents may go to prison if their attendance doesn’t improve, the Observer has learned.

Headteachers say they are now under intense pressure from the government to turn around the crisis in attendance, with a record 150,000 children at state schools classed as severely absent in 2022-23. From September, all state schools in England will have to share their attendance records every day with the Department for Education.

 

[TomandJerry]

Vice-chancellors and former ministers are warning that the cash crisis facing universities is so serious that the next government will have to urgently raise tuition fees or increase funding to avoid bankruptcies within two years.

They said the state of university finances was more dire than revealed in last week’s report by the Office for Students, which forecast 40% of England’s universities would end this year in the red.


Vice-chancellors said that increases of between £2,000 to £3,500 a year for each student would be needed to stabilise the sector.

 

[TomandJerry]

Post-Brexit border checks will cost UK businesses £470m a year, the government’s public spending watchdog has said.

Plans to bring in border checks on goods coming from the EU faced “significant issues” including critical shortages of inspectors before their introduction last month, the National Audit Office said in a report.